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#Post#: 33750--------------------------------------------------
Funeral Etiquette - This Just Felt Very Wrong
By: Mayadoz Date: July 2, 2019, 5:46 am
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Was this rude? I felt so, and my SIL is still upset about it,
but I'm also not sure how it could have been avoided.
EN = My Eldest Nephew
NG = Eldest Nephew's Girlfriend
YN = My Youngest Nephew
My BIL died in an accident some weeks ago, in a country where he
was not ordinarily resident. SIL travelled there straight away
with her youngest son (YN). Her eldest son (EN) joined her from
a third country, where he has lived for a few years. He arrived
with his girlfriend (NG), which surprised my SIL, but ok - of
course, she realised he needed some support too. (For clarity,
both my nephews are adults and in their 20s.)
NG stayed with SIL and my nephews the whole time they were
dealing with the immediate aftermath (around ten days) and then
accompanied them back to the family home in the UK. Because of
the circumstances and bureaucracy, it was several more weeks
before the funeral could take place.
SIL was unhappy as she really wanted/needed support from and
time with her boys, but NG was practically glued to EN's side -
SIL didn't even get to walk the dog with him on their own. SIL
wasn't sure how to approach the situation to get her to back off
a bit and was, of course, dealing with her own grief; she
wondered if she might be being a bit over-sensitive.
At the funeral, SIL felt it should be just her and her boys in
the front car but EN said he wanted NG there. SIL compromised -
NG could travel in the car but not follow the coffin into the
service, or sit on the front row of the congregation - that
should be immediate family only. EN agreed.
Guess what? Not only did NG stay with the family group to walk
behind the coffin, not only did she take a seat on the front row
next to EN, but she joined the family line-up to talk to/thank
people for attending as they left.
SIL was both upset and annoyed about this and personally I also
felt it was totally inappropriate; I've been with DH for 30
years and I still wouldn't presume to join him and SIL as part
of the main mourning party when the time comes for either of
their parents' funerals.
EN has been with NG for around a year, so long enough to be
serious, but there's no suggestion yet of permanency - moving in
together or marriage. She also met my BIL and SIL on just one
occasion before BIL's death. (Not sure if that's relevant, but
including it in case.)
The whole thing just felt….a bit odd. We all - SIL, DH and I -
felt NG was desperately trying to make herself part of the
family throughout the whole time, and had no understanding or
empathy for SIL's grief and needs.
#Post#: 33752--------------------------------------------------
Re: Funeral Etiquette - This Just Felt Very Wrong
By: Hanna Date: July 2, 2019, 6:56 am
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It’s inappropriate I agree, but sounds like it was all done at
EN’s request and he is also grieving his father. I would not
hold it against her for doing as he asked.
#Post#: 33754--------------------------------------------------
Re: Funeral Etiquette - This Just Felt Very Wrong
By: Isisnin Date: July 2, 2019, 8:01 am
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Agree with Hanna. It's entirely possible that EN either
indicated to NG or flat out said to NG that he needed her there.
Even after he agreed with his mother that NG shouldn't be in the
processional or reception line. The desperation that you felt
she had in trying to be part of the family might of been a
result of her thinking that she should leave the family alone on
occasion, but her also knowing that EN wanted her with him. It
might help to try and think of NG not inserting herself but as
helping EN.
My sympathies on you family's loss.
#Post#: 33757--------------------------------------------------
Re: Funeral Etiquette - This Just Felt Very Wrong
By: Hmmm Date: July 2, 2019, 9:01 am
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I'm very sorry for your family's loss. As the mother of 20 year
olds, I don't see anything odd about the behavior of EN or NG
except for not following not following your SIL wishes of
following the casket and sitting with the family. Of course, we
do not know if EN shared SIL's request.
HTML http://SIL was both upset and annoyed about this and personally
I also felt it was totally inappropriate; I've been with DH for
30 years and I still wouldn't presume to join him and SIL as
part of the main mourning party when the time comes for either
of their parents' funerals.
I'm not sure what you mean by main mouring party, but in my
family the "inlaws" act as the coordinators, errand boy, and
keep everything running in support of the original nuclear
family. They are pretty much beside their SO's at the funerals,
wakes, receiving lines and every other event. So maybe that is a
difference in the NG's experience and that of your family.
I would also think that while EN may not have communicated out
right that their plans are long term, they were definitely
acting is they are planning a life together.
#Post#: 33762--------------------------------------------------
Re: Funeral Etiquette - This Just Felt Very Wrong
By: Hanna Date: July 2, 2019, 9:56 am
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Two experiences helped me form my opinion here:
A dear friend lost her father about ten years ago. When I
reached her at the front of an incredibly long receiving line
(estimated at 1200 people by the funeral home) she grabbed me
and pulled me into the line and said “what the hell are you
doing in line?! Get up here!” And had me stay with her. Her
siblings were all married but she was not, and she needed me. I
was not in a position to argue with her.
Other experience is that a dear friend of mine just reconciled
with her son after several years of distance. She said that when
her husband died she expected more of her adult children than
was fair, not recognizing fully that they had their own grief to
manage.
#Post#: 33771--------------------------------------------------
Re: Funeral Etiquette - This Just Felt Very Wrong
By: Wanaca Date: July 2, 2019, 11:33 am
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[quote author=Hmmm link=topic=1212.msg33757#msg33757
date=1562076091]
I'm very sorry for your family's loss. As the mother of 20 year
olds, I don't see anything odd about the behavior of EN or NG
except for not following not following your SIL wishes of
following the casket and sitting with the family. Of course, we
do not know if EN shared SIL's request.
HTML http://SIL was both upset and annoyed about this and personally
I also felt it was totally inappropriate; I've been with DH for
30 years and I still wouldn't presume to join him and SIL as
part of the main mourning party when the time comes for either
of their parents' funerals.
I'm not sure what you mean by main mouring party, but in my
family the "inlaws" act as the coordinators, errand boy, and
keep everything running in support of the original nuclear
family. They are pretty much beside their SO's at the funerals,
wakes, receiving lines and every other event. So maybe that is a
difference in the NG's experience and that of your family.
I would also think that while EN may not have communicated out
right that their plans are long term, they were definitely
acting is they are planning a life together.
[/quote]
Regarding the bolded, this is how things are with my in-laws so
I didn't see anything odd about it. It's normal and expected in
his family (I don't have any family). Of course a lot depends
on the feelings and wants of EN who didn't seem to mind his GF
being with him. Perhaps there's more to the story?
#Post#: 33774--------------------------------------------------
Re: Funeral Etiquette - This Just Felt Very Wrong
By: Aleko Date: July 2, 2019, 11:50 am
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Even making all possible allowance for a widow's grief, I feel
SIL is being unreasonable - and very unfair to this unfortunate
girl. It is very unlikely that she could have stuck herself
'like glue' to her BF if he himself didn't want her to. And the
one time SIL did try to make her son leave her out of the family
group, he said clearly that he wanted her in. Maybe - whatever
he promised his mother to avoid an argument - he didn't explain
(or make clear enough) to his SO that as soon as they got out of
the car she was supposed to make herself scarce and find
somewhere else to sit or stand all alone, like a spare tyre,
till the whole thing was over. Maybe she just missed her moment
to peel off, and found herself being ushered along with the rest
of the party willy-nilly, and reckoned that now she was there
the least disruptive thing was to just follow along. (There's no
suggestion in OP's post that there wasn't enough space in the
front row for all the immediate family - so it's not as though
she displaced a close family member.) Maybe she felt that her
BF, who had wanted her to take leave from work and fly to be
with him throughout this time, would still want her with him
during the funeral, whatever his mom thought.
If SIL feels there is blame, she should direct it at her son for
wanting his SO with him.
[quote]SIL was both upset and annoyed about this and personally
I also felt it was totally inappropriate; I've been with DH for
30 years and I still wouldn't presume to join him and SIL as
part of the main mourning party when the time comes for either
of their parents' funerals.[/quote]
Well, that's a point of view. My DH's previous Director
evidently shared it: when DH asked for leave (not even
compassionate leave, mark you - just a day from his annual
leave) for my mother's funeral she said 'Nonsense! It's not as
though it was your own mother's funeral!' DH - who adored my
mother, as she did him; they would often cheerfully gang up
together to tease my dad and me - was so furious he simply
informed his staff that he would be going to his MIL's funeral
and took the day off without permission, more or less daring the
Director to call him on it. (She didn't.)
Others don't feel that way. If I were to be shunted to a back
pew at my MIL's or FIL's funeral as 'not being REAL family' on
account of only being an in-law, I'd be incredibly hurt and
insulted. Nor at my parents' funerals, would I dream of pushing
either of my SsIL out of the family group to the back (along
with my elder brother's adopted daughter?) on the ground of
their not being blood kin. I think it's a horrible idea that you
can marry into a family, and for decades give birth to members
of it, host Christmas dinners for it, share elder care for
members of it, but still be considered an outsider to it.
#Post#: 33776--------------------------------------------------
Re: Funeral Etiquette - This Just Felt Very Wrong
By: QueenFaninCA Date: July 2, 2019, 12:23 pm
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The only thing I'd fault NG for is never giving the mother 1 on
1 time with her son which the mother seems to have wanted.
#Post#: 33777--------------------------------------------------
Re: Funeral Etiquette - This Just Felt Very Wrong
By: Soop Date: July 2, 2019, 12:48 pm
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[quote author=Mayadoz link=topic=1212.msg33750#msg33750
date=1562064403]
I've been with DH for 30 years and I still wouldn't presume to
join him and SIL as part of the main mourning party when the
time comes for either of their parents' funerals.
[/quote]
This is completely opposite to my experience. Any family
funerals I have been at the spouses are standing right there in
the main mourning party. My FIL died a few years ago and my MIL
wanted me and all of her sons in law (as well as GFs of
grandchildren) involved as part of the family. DH wanted me
glued to his side for support during that whole weekend.
#Post#: 33780--------------------------------------------------
Re: Funeral Etiquette - This Just Felt Very Wrong
By: JeanFromBNA Date: July 2, 2019, 1:16 pm
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[quote author=Aleko link=topic=1212.msg33774#msg33774
date=1562086250]
Even making all possible allowance for a widow's grief, I feel
SIL is being unreasonable - and very unfair to this unfortunate
girl. It is very unlikely that she could have stuck herself
'like glue' to her BF if he himself didn't want her to. And the
one time SIL did try to make her son leave her out of the family
group, he said clearly that he wanted her in. Maybe - whatever
he promised his mother to avoid an argument - he didn't explain
(or make clear enough) to his SO that as soon as they got out of
the car she was supposed to make herself scarce and find
somewhere else to sit or stand all alone, like a spare tyre,
till the whole thing was over. Maybe she just missed her moment
to peel off, and found herself being ushered along with the rest
of the party willy-nilly, and reckoned that now she was there
the least disruptive thing was to just follow along. (There's no
suggestion in OP's post that there wasn't enough space in the
front row for all the immediate family - so it's not as though
she displaced a close family member.) Maybe she felt that her
BF, who had wanted her to take leave from work and fly to be
with him throughout this time, would still want her with him
during the funeral, whatever his mom thought.
If SIL feels there is blame, she should direct it at her son for
wanting his SO with him.
Others don't feel that way. If I were to be shunted to a back
pew at my MIL's or FIL's funeral as 'not being REAL family' on
account of only being an in-law, I'd be incredibly hurt and
insulted. Nor at my parents' funerals, would I dream of pushing
either of my SsIL out of the family group to the back (along
with my elder brother's adopted daughter?) on the ground of
their not being blood kin. I think it's a horrible idea that you
can marry into a family, and for decades give birth to members
of it, host Christmas dinners for it, share elder care for
members of it, but still be considered an outsider to it.
[/quote]
Funerals are about the bereaved. NG is not bereaved. I'm having
a hard time getting worked up feeling sympathetic for NG when
she appears to have been, at the very least, tone deaf about
directing sympathy and understanding toward someone who may be
her future MIL. On the other hand, I don't think that what she
did was necessarily malicious or self-serving. She may have
lacked experience with funerals, and was just following her BF,
who was the only person she knew well. She probably could have
benefited from some gentle guidance from a mature family member
in the form of, "Why don't you just sit with me while they go
walk the dogs?" If she resisted, you could explain, "let's give
them some time alone together."
I understand your point about blood kin family members being
exclusive, but NG is not a family member yet. Year old
relationships are serious, but I think that they should take a
back seat both literally and figuratively to bereaved family
members at funerals unless they're explicitly invited to do
otherwise. It's not polite to try to put yourself at the center
of attention at an acquaintance's funeral.
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