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#Post#: 33585--------------------------------------------------
Re: Does this feel “off” to you? Board ethics issue.
More info #16
By: NyaChan Date: June 28, 2019, 10:13 am
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Short UPDATE: He withdrew the request.
Long Update: After very awkward silence (so noticeable that the
agent emailed me to ask if everyone is ok) on emails, Kana sent
an email asking all the board members (Tom who is back overseas
now wouldn’t be able to attend in person) to meet to
prepare an agenda. This was weird because we don’t
normally do that, the agent does and then we make
additions/edits at the meeting. After the agent responded
pointing out that he was already prepping the agenda and would
email it to us ASAP, I commented that we might not really need
to meet about this since we could just give our input later like
we normally would.
Within 1 hour Tom sent an email to the Board (excluding agent)
saying that he decided not to take the reimbursement for his
flight to conduct important Association business as it
“apparently” raises too many questions as to whether
it is for the good of the association, so please don’t add
it to the agenda. He also suggested we don’t meet with
the company who the agent submitted as an option for the work.
Not sure what prompted it, but I am relived. I’ll still
have to bring up the overarching issues (bidding procedure,
communication, etc.) but at least it is no longer obviously tied
to particular individuals vs improving board transparency and
efficiency overall.
#Post#: 33594--------------------------------------------------
Re: Does this feel “off” to you? Board ethics issue. More info
#16
By: wolfie Date: June 28, 2019, 12:16 pm
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I bet that meeting was meant to pressure you to approve the
reimbursement off the books. When it was obvious that wasn't
going to happen they decided to drop it
DO you know why Tom doesn't want you to meet with that one
contractor? I would be tempted to meet him now - just to see
what TOm is hiding
#Post#: 33616--------------------------------------------------
Re: Does this feel “off” to you? Board ethics issue. Update #20
By: HenrysMom Date: June 28, 2019, 8:13 pm
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[quote author=Lexophile link=topic=1207.msg33599#msg33599
date=1561750594]
I agree with wolfie. It looks like they were testing the
boundaries to see if they could coerce the board into approving
the reimbursement without going through the proper channels. Now
that they know you aren't going to brook that nonsense, they
backed off.
[/quote]
...for now. I wouldn’t be surprised if the issues doesn’t rear
its head in the future.
#Post#: 33624--------------------------------------------------
Re: Does this feel “off” to you? Board ethics issue. More info
#16
By: LifeOnPluto Date: June 29, 2019, 12:28 am
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[quote author=wolfie link=topic=1207.msg33594#msg33594
date=1561742213]
I bet that meeting was meant to pressure you to approve the
reimbursement off the books. When it was obvious that wasn't
going to happen they decided to drop it
DO you know why Tom doesn't want you to meet with that one
contractor? I would be tempted to meet him now - just to see
what TOm is hiding
[/quote]
I'm wondering whether Tom is good mates with the other
contractors whom he IS recommending!
#Post#: 33631--------------------------------------------------
Re: Does this feel “off” to you? Board ethics issue. Update #20
By: guest24 Date: June 29, 2019, 3:53 am
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So Tom gets to have an input even though he won't be there?
I think you need a new president.
#Post#: 33903--------------------------------------------------
Re: Does this feel “off” to you? Board ethics issue. More info
#16
By: NyaChan Date: July 3, 2019, 11:36 pm
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[quote author=wolfie link=topic=1207.msg33594#msg33594
date=1561742213]
I bet that meeting was meant to pressure you to approve the
reimbursement off the books. When it was obvious that wasn't
going to happen they decided to drop it
DO you know why Tom doesn't want you to meet with that one
contractor? I would be tempted to meet him now - just to see
what TOm is hiding
[/quote]
He doesn’t want to use them because the bid didn’t on its face
match what he originally asked for (multiple options laid out so
we could pick). I asked the agent why it didn’t match and he
explained that the company kept it simple because they wanted to
talk over the options in a meeting because there are many
possibilities and levels of repair. Tom is stuck on the
original problem and general distrust of the vendors the
management company puts forth. He wants us to use the people he
has been checking with instead. I’m going to ask the same
question at the meeting because right now, the other board
members are only hearing the negative side of things from Tom.
Since the other board members are pretty new, I’m going to add
review of general board procedures to the agenda. Someone might
ask for it to be reviewed privately to save time, so I’m trying
to practice giving a good reason why homeowners would want to or
should hear it...
#Post#: 33909--------------------------------------------------
Re: Does this feel “off” to you? Board ethics issue. Update #20
By: Hanna Date: July 4, 2019, 6:46 am
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I think Tom probably means well but is very controlling and that
this role is perhaps too important to him, where he believes
only he can do things the right way.
Board members can also do too much for an organization which
later leaves it weaker instead of stronger. We had a volunteer
org president that paid for her own training during her years in
office. When it came time for training for the next president,
the funds had not been budgeted and she didn’t personally have
the ability to self-fund it.
Another president moved our office from a rented space to a free
one that her family owned. They sold the space and we’d gotten
out of the habit of raising the funds to pay for an office.
Both meant well but really left problems behind for those that
came after them with doing more than could be expected of most
volunteers.
It does not create a stable and self-sustaining organization for
Tom the construction expert to take on extra unpaid work and
make decisions in the way that he is doing. Your next president
is unlikely to have the same background.
#Post#: 34030--------------------------------------------------
Re: Does this feel “off” to you? Board ethics issue. Update #20
By: Songbird Date: July 6, 2019, 10:15 pm
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Counselor, I’m glad he withdrew the request. I can well imagine
the response from the rest of the association if you’d quietly
reimbursed him and then that info became public. Who is your D
& O carrier?
I’m being serious. Stupid stuff like this can blossom into a
full fledged D & O claim.
I was a trustee of my synagogue for 10 years. Believe me,
stupid stuff ...
#Post#: 34445--------------------------------------------------
Re: Does this feel “off” to you? Board ethics issue. Update #20
By: NyaChan Date: July 12, 2019, 11:55 pm
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We had the meeting and it’s been...mixed. Tom did not call in
or Skype, but Kana seemed friendly at first. That changed as
the meeting progressed. I brought up my concerns as topics of
discussion that I felt the board should address. It was wordy
but distilled to 1) efficient and full communication, 2)
transparency with meetings, and 3) following a standard bidding
process. I tried to be fair and pointed out some things the
management company could do to improve things also. No one on
the board said anything but I saw some homeowners nodding along.
I made a point of explaing background for each agenda item that
was vague or assumed prior knowledge. At the end of the meeting,
we actually got some lovely compliments from a homeowner who
admitted that she’d only come to complain but loved how open and
informative this meeting ended up being.
Then we went into an executive session and things went more
tense. This section is reserved for matters that aren’t for
homeowners to hear (which unit are we attaching a lien to, who
are we fining for violations). First the property management
company owner reported that while in the States, Tom had
aggressively verbally accosted a vendor in the building. Kana
immediately insisted that she was with him and that while
heated, she didn’t think a line was crossed. “Were you with him
each time he went up there to yell at him?” Cue silence while
we take in the implication. Kana replies, “...there was more
than once?” Yup. The vendor now refuses to work at our
building anymore. Kana tried to bring up the vendor’s failures
but the owner shut it down saying those are two separate issues
and if we have a problem, we should tell them, not attack the
vendor. To do Kana credit, she immediately agreed with him and
we all apologized that this had happened.
Then the project Tom flew back for came up. The agent basically
said that they had no idea what he was doing or what we wanted
them to do and asked for guidance. We went around the table and
no one had information for them. Kana, in a very subdued voice
said she only knew what was already shared. Someone changed the
subject before we reached a resolution or next steps, so I said,
“wait, what do we want to do about that project?” Kana
immediately goes “We can’t vote without Tom!” I stupidly didn’t
explain that I wasn’t asking for a vote, just wanted some
thoughts on whether we were going to wait for info or ask the
agent to get a different bid. Instead, I knee jerk responded
with “Yes we can, we have a quorum.” Kana replied “I was told
we were not to vote on this without Tom.” And I said “he’s not
here. He doesn’t get to...” and then I realized I should shut up
because I didn’t actually want a vote, but responding this way
would make them think I did. I wish I had handled that
differently.
I later received emails bringing up the open meetings issue from
Kana. Tom responded saying the rules allow emergency meetings
without notice and doesn’t define emergency so it could arguably
mean wanting to get something done quickly. Then he asks to
schedule a private meeting over one month from now based on that
ambiguity. I was smarter this time and when asked if I would be
done with work in time to attend responded with my preferred
start time and only then asked for the proposed topics. I
wanted to see what they were in case they were one of the
express exceptions to the open meetings rule. They were not.
I emailed the agent asking for guidance on what to do because I
genuinely think this is a violation of the governing documents
and I’m not going violate my personal or professional code of
ethics for this guy’s convenience and ego. They haven’t yet
responded, but think I am ready to drop the rope and resign. I
don’t have any support on the board for my point of view and all
I see is conflict stretching out in front of me. I will
probably contact the former president (who didn’t run for
election after more than a year of Tom accusing him of actions
that looked unethical though he did not actually violate rules)
for some guidance because he told me he was willing to listen
and possibly take action as a homeowner if things got bad. I
just hate the idea that after I resign they’ll just have free
reign. But I can’t handle the stress of being entirely on my
own.
#Post#: 34450--------------------------------------------------
Re: Does this feel “off” to you? Board ethics issue. Ridiculous
ly long Update #29
By: Nikko-chan Date: July 13, 2019, 2:28 am
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Did you mention to the property owner about the weird and creepy
little stunt they pulled where they ambushed you in the meeting
with the two of them? If not, I would tell him. And every other
thing they tried to pull. It might just be that someone over
your head can toss Kana AND Tom on their shady little butts.
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