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#Post#: 32851--------------------------------------------------
I Need Help... (OP U/D # 39, 49, 68)
By: violinp Date: June 13, 2019, 5:54 pm
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Ok. I thought wedding planning wouldn't be this...bad. Buuut, I
also have a horrible family, so I probably should've expected
it.
1. My grandpa. He's always been an abusive, alcoholic jerk, but
the past 2 years or so have been particularly bad. Mom (his
daughter) died 5 years ago, and I converted to Catholicism from
being Lutheran 2 years ago. Grandpa is a Lutheran pastor, and
was furious I converted, saying I now serve Satan. What remained
of our relationship after his abuse, in my eyes, was now
shattered. He and I barely speak, but I keep up with Grandma to
make sure she's ok. Then Cabbage (my sister) converted to
Catholicism this year. Grandpa reacted even more badly, and
refused to even eat dinner with her when she visited them after.
Double Bass really doesn't want me to invite them, because he
wants us (and me especially, because I've been so abused in my
family and by others) to have the wedding we/I deserve, but has
said he will support whatever I choose. I really want Grandma
there, but having the man who terrorized my mom and her
brothers, belittled my dad and aunts, and has essentially given
Cabbage and me the CD while wanting to pretend we all get
along...is worrying me. I'm going to have a talk with them
before the wedding that boils down to "If Gramps makes any mean
comments, you will need to leave," but I don't know how to word
it in a polite manner that doesn't make me a doormat. Advice?
2. There are relatives I have been asked by Gran to invite.
Let's call them Great - Uncle Vic and Great - Aunt Ida. Ida is
my grandma's sister, but I haven't spoken to Vic or Ida since my
older uncle's wedding 16 years ago. They live on the other side
of the country, and even if they didn't...Vic nearly ruined
Uncle Bill's wedding when he freaked out that a reading wasn't
from the Bible (Gran's other sister had to hit him to make him
quit). Vic and Ida are even more conservative Lutherans than my
grandparents, and would be, at best, deeply uncomfortable at a
Catholic Mass. All of that combined makes it obvious to me not
to invite Great - Uncle Vic and Great - Aunt Ida. The rub: I am
inviting the other siblings (Gran, her other sister, and their
brother) and their spouses, plus my Gramps's brother, SIL, and
sister. All of them I am close to, unlike Vic and Ida. Is this
bad etiquette? If Gran asks, what do I say?
3. We are having an almost dry reception. I say "almost" because
Double Bass and I will have a ceremonial bottle of wine for the
reception for a cultural tradition important to us
(
HTML https://www.argyll-bute.gov.uk/marriage/content/quaich-ceremony<br
/>). Is this rude to our guests? We will have 2 punches, coffee,
and water with a BBQ lunch and a cake.
Thanks in advance for your answers!
#Post#: 32855--------------------------------------------------
Re: I Need Help...
By: Lilac Date: June 13, 2019, 6:31 pm
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As to the wine, will you be drinking it in front your guests? I
would vote rude, sorry.
Can you do that ceremony in private or with just a couple of
witnesses?
Would Gran come alone? Could someone pick her up and escort her
without your Grandpa, or would that make her life miserable
after the fact?
Honestly I do not know any Lutheran people (my FOO is Lutheran)
who would have a problem attending a Catholic ceremony. Your
problem is not one of the various religious beliefs involved,
but rather of a bunch of opinionated jerks.
I think you should invite only people who can be trusted to
behave and either let Gran watch via Skype or have someone video
the ceremony (not necessarily professionally, but with a tablet,
smartphone or inexpensive camera) and sit down with Gran at a
later date and watch it and tell her all about the event.
Having acrimonious, insulting people at your wedding is no way
to enjoy it. It is too bad if your Gran has to be absent but
after all she has chosen a life with your grandfather and this
is one of the consequences.
#Post#: 32860--------------------------------------------------
Re: I Need Help...
By: Aleko Date: June 14, 2019, 1:15 am
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I would say, don't invite anybody to your wedding who would be
made uncomfortable/unhappy/angry to be present. (It is, after
all, rude and unkind to require people to attend and formally
lend their countenance to an event that offends their
conscience.) That clearly rules out inviting your Grandpa, Vic,
and Ida. If any of the rest of the family should be so dense as
to ask why they aren't there, just tell them without fudging. As
for Grandma, just ask her: is she OK with coming on her own? If
not, do whatever you can along the lines Lilac suggests to make
her feel included.
As for the wine question: I agree with Lilac, it is rude to make
your guests watch you drink wine and not offer them any.
However, the only things that are properly and traditionally
drunk from a quaich are whisky or (much less usual, by the rich)
brandy; it is, by definition, a cup for spirits. Drinking wine
out of a quaich is wildly not-traditional. If you aren't going
to stick to the traditional drink, you can just as well share a
quaich-ful of sparkling water or Coke, and avoid the whole
problem of rudeness. Plus, drinking wine ritually in that way
might bring to guests' minds resonances of religious wine
rituals such as the Jewish wedding ceremony or indeed the
Catholic Mass, and it might feel a bit weird and wrong to them.
#Post#: 32870--------------------------------------------------
Re: I Need Help...
By: Hmmm Date: June 14, 2019, 8:59 am
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1. I would either invite grandmother only or not invite either
of them. If she chooses to not come without him, then it is on
her and she is once again speaking volumes about where her
loyalties are. I know how easy it is for families to view your
grandmother as the victim and having to tolerate living with her
husband. But she is really the person who allowed her daughter
to be raised in a home by an abusive alcoholic. Yes, it is hard
to leave a marriage, especially where their is strong religious
ties or financial concerns. But people put their children first
every day and make the right decisions. I'd give her one more
chance to choose you over him. If she didn't, then that is her
loss. I would in no way allow this man anywhere near my wedding.
You can be very direct and unemotional about your decision.
Because he has been so outspoken on his beliefs of the Catholic
faith and Catholics, you do not want him to attend your Catholic
ceremony and you are sure he does not want to attend either.
2. You do not need to invite your great aunt and uncle. If
questioned just say you've had no contact with them in 16 years
and really can't imagine that they'd want to attend your
wedding. Did they not even contact you when your mother passed.
3. I didn't see anything in the link about the ceremony
indicating the content was traditionally wine. I only noted a
mention of whiskey being common. I would not have a bottle of
wine for you and none for the guests. I would use one of the
punches being served, or if they compliment each other, maybe do
what was also suggested of combining two drinks.
edited to fix a typo
#Post#: 32871--------------------------------------------------
Re: I Need Help...
By: Nikko-chan Date: June 14, 2019, 9:14 am
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I'm with everyone else. don't invite these people. It would only
be a headache. Ask Gran if she can come alone. if not you can
tell her all about it I am sure. Or like pp's suggested have
someone tape it for her.
#Post#: 32875--------------------------------------------------
Re: I Need Help...
By: Pattycake Date: June 14, 2019, 10:10 am
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I would invite Gran without Gramps. I am sure they'll both get
the why, and Gran can come if she wants to and is able to. I
wouldn't invite the Greats, because you're not close to them and
haven't seen them for years. If Gran asks, that's what you tell
her, and that you want people that are close to you, not just
because they are somehow related (that goes for Gramps, too.)
For the wine, I say substitute. It's the ritual, not the
alcohol, that's important, and if as Aleko says it's not the
actual traditional drink, then it shouldn't matter that you put
a non-alcoholic liquid in (many churches for example substitute
juice for wine at communion as it's the symbolism, not the
actual liquid, that counts.)
#Post#: 32879--------------------------------------------------
Re: I Need Help...
By: Despedina Date: June 14, 2019, 10:49 am
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Don't invite the people you don't want. My DH was guilted into
inviting an Aunt/Uncle that treated him like garbage for years.
At our wedding reception the videographer passed a microphone
inviting all the guests to record a personal message on video. I
now have video of all these wonderful people saying nice things
and this Aunt/Uncle looked at the microphone, made a face and
passed it to someone else. All the while eating the food and
drinks we paid for. I get to enjoy that image forever lol.
#Post#: 32880--------------------------------------------------
Re: I Need Help...
By: Rose Red Date: June 14, 2019, 11:32 am
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Etiquette says you don't invite half a couple. But etiquette
doesn't take into account of abuse. Invite grandma only. If she
won't come without her husband, you need to decide if you can
live without grandma at your wedding too. I'm sorry but there
are consequences for the spouse of abusive people too.
Don't invite Vic and Ida. There're practically strangers after
16 years. And what you know about them is not good. Like others
said, tell Grandma you only want people close to you at your
wedding. You want people who love and support you there, not
ruin your wedding with their intolerance.
#Post#: 32882--------------------------------------------------
Re: I Need Help...
By: lakey Date: June 14, 2019, 12:04 pm
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[quote]Honestly I do not know any Lutheran people (my FOO is
Lutheran) who would have a problem attending a Catholic
ceremony. Your problem is not one of the various religious
beliefs involved, but rather of a bunch of opinionated jerks.
[/quote]
This. It's a personality problem, not a religion problem.
Abusive people will always find something to be abusive about.
I think that having a dry wedding is a good idea. The one bottle
of wine for a particular tradition, wouldn't bother me. If you
think it would bother your guests, could you substitute a grape
juice?
I think that refusing to invite relatives who can't behave
themselves in church or at a reception is fine. Actions have
consequences. Someone who has to be hit because he can't keep
his nasty comments to himself in church, doesn't belong at a
wedding.
Inviting Grandma, but not abusive Grandpa, could create problems
for Grandma. Maybe you could have a talk with her.
You have a right to have a nice wedding that isn't ruined by
relatives who have the emotional development of 5 year olds.
Don't let people guilt you into anything that you don't want.
Personally, I wouldn't invite Great Uncle Vic and his wife. If
you think Grandma or someone else can get Grandpa to behave
himself, take the chance and invite him. If you really think he
will be a problem, don't. It's his fault, not yours.
#Post#: 32885--------------------------------------------------
Re: I Need Help...
By: Gellchom Date: June 14, 2019, 1:00 pm
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Oh, dear. I am so sorry you are in such a position.
The wine is the easiest one. I agree with the others; don't
give yourselves anything you are not serving your guests.
Substitute something else for the wine or do that ceremony
privately.
I don't disagree with all the other posters about abusers
forfeiting their rights to be included, and you absolutely don't
need to invite any of them. But I know that it's often not as
simple as that. Sometimes these decisions affect more than you
and the abuser. That doesn't mean that you have to include
anyone, but it sometimes means that you have to do some more
work someplace else beyond "Too bad, it's my wedding!!" Not
inviting a grandparent is a Big Thing. As Lakey pointed out:
[quote]Inviting Grandma, but not abusive Grandpa, could create
problems for Grandma. Maybe you could have a talk with her.
[/quote]
Both for the grandparents and the great aunt and uncle, I think
we can't really give you firm advice. Too bad your mom is gone;
I think it would be really helpful for you to be able to discuss
this with someone you trust who knows the people and the
history. Are there siblings or other aunts and uncles you could
consult? (Wouldn't it be nice if you could somehow know that if
you did invite them, they definitely wouldn't come?) I bet when
you talk to Grandma, you will get insights and ideas we couldn't
possibly think of.
But we can give you our support as you work this out, and we do.
No solution will be perfect, unfortunately. But if you
approach these tough problems with maturity and consideration as
well as self-respect, as you seem to be doing, you will make a
good decision and carry it out well for yourself and others,
too.
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