URI:
   DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Bad Manners and Brimstone
  HTML https://badmanners.createaforum.com
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       *****************************************************
   DIR Return to: Entertaining and Hospitality
       *****************************************************
       #Post#: 32841--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Wednesday night church dinner concerns
       By: lakey Date: June 13, 2019, 4:42 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote]I think you can suggest she stick to providing things
       that she can do well: leftover cookies will look and taste just
       fine when presented on a plate that doesn't show that half of
       them were already eaten, for example. She doesn't have to
       provide dinner; snacks are great!
       Do you know if she really wants to serve dinner, or just has an
       uncontrollable urge to get rid of leftovers?[/quote]
       I like this. Tammy's providing a freshly made dinner for people
       once a week would be taxing, but snacks aren't as labor
       intensive.
       This post gave me a flashback to a time when I had emergency
       outpatient surgery. My co-workers had had a potluck, so thinking
       they were helping me out, they packaged up all of the picked
       over leftovers and one of them brought it to my house. They
       didn't do a very good job of packing it up and it looked really
       gross. As someone else said, food that has been picked over by
       15 other people and has sat out for hours is questionable as far
       as food safety. Of course I thanked them, but I was offended.
       #Post#: 32842--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Wednesday night church dinner concerns
       By: NyaChan Date: June 13, 2019, 4:48 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=lakey link=topic=1189.msg32841#msg32841
       date=1560462147]
       [quote]I think you can suggest she stick to providing things
       that she can do well: leftover cookies will look and taste just
       fine when presented on a plate that doesn't show that half of
       them were already eaten, for example. She doesn't have to
       provide dinner; snacks are great!
       Do you know if she really wants to serve dinner, or just has an
       uncontrollable urge to get rid of leftovers?[/quote]
       I like this. Tammy's providing a freshly made dinner for people
       once a week would be taxing, but snacks aren't as labor
       intensive.
       This post gave me a flashback to a time when I had emergency
       outpatient surgery. My co-workers had had a potluck, so thinking
       they were helping me out, they packaged up all of the picked
       over leftovers and one of them brought it to my house. They
       didn't do a very good job of packing it up and it looked really
       gross. As someone else said, food that has been picked over by
       15 other people and has sat out for hours is questionable as far
       as food safety. Of course I thanked them, but I was offended.
       [/quote]
       Oh yuck!!!
       #Post#: 32849--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Wednesday night church dinner concerns
       By: Victoria Date: June 13, 2019, 5:43 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       As a clarification, the event is marketed as a dinner. Because
       of the day/time there is food involved and I don't think that it
       would go over well if we didn't feed anyone anything, though I
       may suggest we scale back to cheese/crackers and light apps, as
       people have commented.
       The leftover food is coming out of the church refrigerator, and
       Tammy occasionally makes things in the church kitchen. It has
       occasionally been potluck style, and I have occasionally offered
       to pick up something on my way to it, though that's been
       sporadic and she rarely takes me up on it. Tammy doesn't seem to
       plan ahead or know what she's going to do until the day of. I
       know a lot about Tammy's work life and it really just irks me
       that she claims this is important and then acts like it's an
       afterthought. Part of the reason that I needed to post here was
       to cool off about it for a bit and gather my thoughts so I don't
       end up saying anything rude or uncharitable about how my mother
       raised me better (which I am aware is 100% not productive at
       all, etc.).
       I think that when we're going over the budget for the group I'll
       bring it up then and say that we need to start budgeting for
       fresh food, and to start prepping it in a very appealing way
       because we're welcoming people as guests. The people we draw in
       are hard working, professional, punctual types of people. They
       expect things to start on time, for things to be presented well,
       and to not be an afterthought. I'll ask her what other resources
       she needs and if there's anything I can do to help. It may
       simply be that Tammy needs someone to draw up meal plans for
       her, which I'm happy to do. If she takes offense then I'll say
       that part of welcoming people is making them feel like they're a
       priority and putting our best food forward, and our best foot
       isn't leftovers from another church event, or too few options
       for them to feel included. Doing things like serving wilted
       lettuce, things past their best by date, and "questionable"
       items is fine for at home, but it's not inclusive (Tammy
       actually loves that word) of other people and can make them feel
       uncomfortable.
       #Post#: 32850--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Wednesday night church dinner concerns
       By: Hello Ducky Date: June 13, 2019, 5:49 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Victoria link=topic=1189.msg32849#msg32849
       date=1560465803]
       As a clarification, the event is marketed as a dinner. Because
       of the day/time there is food involved and I don't think that it
       would go over well if we didn't feed anyone anything, though I
       may suggest we scale back to cheese/crackers and light apps, as
       people have commented.
       The leftover food is coming out of the church refrigerator, and
       Tammy occasionally makes things in the church kitchen. It has
       occasionally been potluck style, and I have occasionally offered
       to pick up something on my way to it, though that's been
       sporadic and she rarely takes me up on it. Tammy doesn't seem to
       plan ahead or know what she's going to do until the day of. I
       know a lot about Tammy's work life and it really just irks me
       that she claims this is important and then acts like it's an
       afterthought. Part of the reason that I needed to post here was
       to cool off about it for a bit and gather my thoughts so I don't
       end up saying anything rude or uncharitable about how my mother
       raised me better (which I am aware is 100% not productive at
       all, etc.).
       I think that when we're going over the budget for the group I'll
       bring it up then and say that we need to start budgeting for
       fresh food, and to start prepping it in a very appealing way
       because we're welcoming people as guests. The people we draw in
       are hard working, professional, punctual types of people. They
       expect things to start on time, for things to be presented well,
       and to not be an afterthought. I'll ask her what other resources
       she needs and if there's anything I can do to help. It may
       simply be that Tammy needs someone to draw up meal plans for
       her, which I'm happy to do. If she takes offense then I'll say
       that part of welcoming people is making them feel like they're a
       priority and putting our best food forward, and our best foot
       isn't leftovers from another church event, or too few options
       for them to feel included. Doing things like serving wilted
       lettuce, things past their best by date, and "questionable"
       items is fine for at home, but it's not inclusive (Tammy
       actually loves that word) of other people and can make them feel
       uncomfortable.
       [/quote]
       The "type" of people being drawn in should not matter.  It's not
       okay to treat anyone like this.
       #Post#: 32852--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Wednesday night church dinner concerns
       By: Victoria Date: June 13, 2019, 6:08 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Hello Ducky link=topic=1189.msg32850#msg32850
       date=1560466174]
       [quote author=Victoria link=topic=1189.msg32849#msg32849
       date=1560465803]
       As a clarification, the event is marketed as a dinner. Because
       of the day/time there is food involved and I don't think that it
       would go over well if we didn't feed anyone anything, though I
       may suggest we scale back to cheese/crackers and light apps, as
       people have commented.
       The leftover food is coming out of the church refrigerator, and
       Tammy occasionally makes things in the church kitchen. It has
       occasionally been potluck style, and I have occasionally offered
       to pick up something on my way to it, though that's been
       sporadic and she rarely takes me up on it. Tammy doesn't seem to
       plan ahead or know what she's going to do until the day of. I
       know a lot about Tammy's work life and it really just irks me
       that she claims this is important and then acts like it's an
       afterthought. Part of the reason that I needed to post here was
       to cool off about it for a bit and gather my thoughts so I don't
       end up saying anything rude or uncharitable about how my mother
       raised me better (which I am aware is 100% not productive at
       all, etc.).
       I think that when we're going over the budget for the group I'll
       bring it up then and say that we need to start budgeting for
       fresh food, and to start prepping it in a very appealing way
       because we're welcoming people as guests. The people we draw in
       are hard working, professional, punctual types of people. They
       expect things to start on time, for things to be presented well,
       and to not be an afterthought. I'll ask her what other resources
       she needs and if there's anything I can do to help. It may
       simply be that Tammy needs someone to draw up meal plans for
       her, which I'm happy to do. If she takes offense then I'll say
       that part of welcoming people is making them feel like they're a
       priority and putting our best food forward, and our best foot
       isn't leftovers from another church event, or too few options
       for them to feel included. Doing things like serving wilted
       lettuce, things past their best by date, and "questionable"
       items is fine for at home, but it's not inclusive (Tammy
       actually loves that word) of other people and can make them feel
       uncomfortable.
       [/quote]
       The "type" of people being drawn in should not matter.  It's not
       okay to treat anyone like this.
       [/quote]
       In Tammy’s mind, she’s not treating anyone like anything, this
       is just The Way We Do Things. Pointing out that we’re not all
       the type of people who call ourselves “free spirits” and “will
       eat anything without visible mold or just cut the mold off”
       (like our mutual friend) will probably be an important part of
       persuading her to change. I honestly don’t expect that she will
       agree with my sentiment that this is unacceptable behavior
       period.
       #Post#: 32854--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Wednesday night church dinner concerns
       By: Lilac Date: June 13, 2019, 6:21 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Is Tammy a paid staff member?  What are her other roles?  Is
       this her first experience as an event / catering planner? What
       is the weekly budget?  Does someone need to reassure her that
       the funds are available and she is not required to stint on food
       to save the church some money?
       Could a "hospitality committee" be formed to relieve her of
       planning and executing the meals for this meeting?
       I'm trying to come up with some wording for you.
       "Tammy, I wanted to speak with you about the meal service at the
       weekly meetings.  It seems that we have slipped into a very
       informal routine as regards the source of the food and the
       presentation.  We need to be more formal and profesisonal in
       designing menus and offering fresh food, not leftovers from
       other events.  It's important to treat our guests like the
       welcome visitors they are. I appreciate your efforts to
       economize and be a good steward of church funds, but we have a
       firm budget for these meetings.  From now on we will use $100
       per week  to purchase fresh items.  Do you like the idea of
       pizza, or would a deli tray from the supermarket be better?"
       Actually I think I would have a hard time being tactful if
       picked-over leavings and crusty salad dressing bottles were
       being presented to guests.  "What we serve reflects on the
       entire church community and I am not comfortable with the
       impression we are giving our guests by setting out a random
       assortment of food and unsanitary condiments."
       "Not everyone is comfortable eating food that has been picked
       over by strangers and that has been sitting in a communal fridge
       for several days.  Let's leave those for the staff and organize
       something fresh for our guests."
       "Let's come up with a monthly menu plan.  Week 1: Pizza or tacos
       from the nearby carryout place.   Week 2: Sandwich platter,
       rolls and a veggie tray.  Week 3: Rotisserie chicken and corn on
       the cob from the market on the corner.  Week 4: Lasagna and
       garlic bread (from the supermarket/food service store or a
       nearby restaurant).  We will repeat this menu each month.
       Members who want to supply brownies are welcome to do so.
       Coffee and iced tea will accompany each meal.  Thanks so much."
       #Post#: 32874--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Wednesday night church dinner concerns
       By: Hmmm Date: June 14, 2019, 9:36 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Victoria link=topic=1189.msg32852#msg32852
       date=1560467316]
       [quote author=Hello Ducky link=topic=1189.msg32850#msg32850
       date=1560466174]
       [quote author=Victoria link=topic=1189.msg32849#msg32849
       date=1560465803]
       As a clarification, the event is marketed as a dinner. Because
       of the day/time there is food involved and I don't think that it
       would go over well if we didn't feed anyone anything, though I
       may suggest we scale back to cheese/crackers and light apps, as
       people have commented.
       The leftover food is coming out of the church refrigerator, and
       Tammy occasionally makes things in the church kitchen. It has
       occasionally been potluck style, and I have occasionally offered
       to pick up something on my way to it, though that's been
       sporadic and she rarely takes me up on it. Tammy doesn't seem to
       plan ahead or know what she's going to do until the day of. I
       know a lot about Tammy's work life and it really just irks me
       that she claims this is important and then acts like it's an
       afterthought. Part of the reason that I needed to post here was
       to cool off about it for a bit and gather my thoughts so I don't
       end up saying anything rude or uncharitable about how my mother
       raised me better (which I am aware is 100% not productive at
       all, etc.).
       I think that when we're going over the budget for the group I'll
       bring it up then and say that we need to start budgeting for
       fresh food, and to start prepping it in a very appealing way
       because we're welcoming people as guests. The people we draw in
       are hard working, professional, punctual types of people. They
       expect things to start on time, for things to be presented well,
       and to not be an afterthought. I'll ask her what other resources
       she needs and if there's anything I can do to help. It may
       simply be that Tammy needs someone to draw up meal plans for
       her, which I'm happy to do. If she takes offense then I'll say
       that part of welcoming people is making them feel like they're a
       priority and putting our best food forward, and our best foot
       isn't leftovers from another church event, or too few options
       for them to feel included. Doing things like serving wilted
       lettuce, things past their best by date, and "questionable"
       items is fine for at home, but it's not inclusive (Tammy
       actually loves that word) of other people and can make them feel
       uncomfortable.
       [/quote]
       The "type" of people being drawn in should not matter.  It's not
       okay to treat anyone like this.
       [/quote]
       In Tammy’s mind, she’s not treating anyone like anything, this
       is just The Way We Do Things. Pointing out that we’re not all
       the type of people who call ourselves “free spirits” and “will
       eat anything without visible mold or just cut the mold off”
       (like our mutual friend) will probably be an important part of
       persuading her to change. I honestly don’t expect that she will
       agree with my sentiment that this is unacceptable behavior
       period.
       [/quote]
       Does Tammy have responsibility for all of the church catering or
       what exactly is her role? Are you the assigned coordinator or
       leader of the Wednesday night bible study?
       I'd just say that doing the leftover thing is no longer working
       for you this group and you'll be putting together a weekly menu
       of items that can be catered in. If she objects just say you are
       uncomfortable offering food that you do not know has been
       properly stored or hasn't been contaminated by someone ill in a
       different group. Give her a list of 4 places that deliver or
       that is convenient for you to pick up from on your way and then
       be done with it.
       #Post#: 32919--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Wednesday night church dinner concerns
       By: Hanna Date: June 15, 2019, 12:37 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Aren’t church kitchens held to the health codes in most states?
       I’d make it about that. “The health dept doesn’t allow us to
       serve leftover food.”  Or some better worded version of that.
       I’d also start just throwing out any leftovers at every
       opportunity.
       #Post#: 32924--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Wednesday night church dinner concerns
       By: Aleko Date: June 15, 2019, 5:07 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Hanna, I think you've just cut the Gordian knot. Pointing out
       that the church could get into legal trouble serving those
       leftovers bypasses all the issues of "is it respectful?", "is it
       pleasant?", "is it sanitary?" that could be argued over or cause
       offence.
       #Post#: 32930--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Wednesday night church dinner concerns
       By: jpcher Date: June 15, 2019, 9:42 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       LOL! I had all sorts of thoughts of how to reply going through
       my mind as I was reading the thread. I especially liked Lilac's
       several different and very polite responses.
       THEN! Hanna to the rescue![emoji1319]
       Oh, my. Safety does trump etiquette, doesn't it.
       Along with Aleko's response . . . I had to look up Gordian Knot.
       Wiki definition: "The Gordian Knot is a legend of Phrygian
       Gordium associated with Alexander the Great. It is often used as
       a metaphor for an intractable problem (untying an
       impossibly-tangled knot) solved easily by finding an approach to
       the problem that renders the perceived constraints of the
       problem moot ("cutting the Gordian knot"):"
       Yes! Cut to the chase.
       You could dress it up with gentle suggestions as to how to
       improve the service of leftovers with ideas about menus, etc.
       but the main point is that the food offered may be unhealthy.
       Why skirt the real issue by hiding behind etiquette?
       Health issues, in my opinion, renders the problem moot.
       *****************************************************
   DIR Next Page