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#Post#: 32841--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wednesday night church dinner concerns
By: lakey Date: June 13, 2019, 4:42 pm
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[quote]I think you can suggest she stick to providing things
that she can do well: leftover cookies will look and taste just
fine when presented on a plate that doesn't show that half of
them were already eaten, for example. She doesn't have to
provide dinner; snacks are great!
Do you know if she really wants to serve dinner, or just has an
uncontrollable urge to get rid of leftovers?[/quote]
I like this. Tammy's providing a freshly made dinner for people
once a week would be taxing, but snacks aren't as labor
intensive.
This post gave me a flashback to a time when I had emergency
outpatient surgery. My co-workers had had a potluck, so thinking
they were helping me out, they packaged up all of the picked
over leftovers and one of them brought it to my house. They
didn't do a very good job of packing it up and it looked really
gross. As someone else said, food that has been picked over by
15 other people and has sat out for hours is questionable as far
as food safety. Of course I thanked them, but I was offended.
#Post#: 32842--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wednesday night church dinner concerns
By: NyaChan Date: June 13, 2019, 4:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=lakey link=topic=1189.msg32841#msg32841
date=1560462147]
[quote]I think you can suggest she stick to providing things
that she can do well: leftover cookies will look and taste just
fine when presented on a plate that doesn't show that half of
them were already eaten, for example. She doesn't have to
provide dinner; snacks are great!
Do you know if she really wants to serve dinner, or just has an
uncontrollable urge to get rid of leftovers?[/quote]
I like this. Tammy's providing a freshly made dinner for people
once a week would be taxing, but snacks aren't as labor
intensive.
This post gave me a flashback to a time when I had emergency
outpatient surgery. My co-workers had had a potluck, so thinking
they were helping me out, they packaged up all of the picked
over leftovers and one of them brought it to my house. They
didn't do a very good job of packing it up and it looked really
gross. As someone else said, food that has been picked over by
15 other people and has sat out for hours is questionable as far
as food safety. Of course I thanked them, but I was offended.
[/quote]
Oh yuck!!!
#Post#: 32849--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wednesday night church dinner concerns
By: Victoria Date: June 13, 2019, 5:43 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
As a clarification, the event is marketed as a dinner. Because
of the day/time there is food involved and I don't think that it
would go over well if we didn't feed anyone anything, though I
may suggest we scale back to cheese/crackers and light apps, as
people have commented.
The leftover food is coming out of the church refrigerator, and
Tammy occasionally makes things in the church kitchen. It has
occasionally been potluck style, and I have occasionally offered
to pick up something on my way to it, though that's been
sporadic and she rarely takes me up on it. Tammy doesn't seem to
plan ahead or know what she's going to do until the day of. I
know a lot about Tammy's work life and it really just irks me
that she claims this is important and then acts like it's an
afterthought. Part of the reason that I needed to post here was
to cool off about it for a bit and gather my thoughts so I don't
end up saying anything rude or uncharitable about how my mother
raised me better (which I am aware is 100% not productive at
all, etc.).
I think that when we're going over the budget for the group I'll
bring it up then and say that we need to start budgeting for
fresh food, and to start prepping it in a very appealing way
because we're welcoming people as guests. The people we draw in
are hard working, professional, punctual types of people. They
expect things to start on time, for things to be presented well,
and to not be an afterthought. I'll ask her what other resources
she needs and if there's anything I can do to help. It may
simply be that Tammy needs someone to draw up meal plans for
her, which I'm happy to do. If she takes offense then I'll say
that part of welcoming people is making them feel like they're a
priority and putting our best food forward, and our best foot
isn't leftovers from another church event, or too few options
for them to feel included. Doing things like serving wilted
lettuce, things past their best by date, and "questionable"
items is fine for at home, but it's not inclusive (Tammy
actually loves that word) of other people and can make them feel
uncomfortable.
#Post#: 32850--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wednesday night church dinner concerns
By: Hello Ducky Date: June 13, 2019, 5:49 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Victoria link=topic=1189.msg32849#msg32849
date=1560465803]
As a clarification, the event is marketed as a dinner. Because
of the day/time there is food involved and I don't think that it
would go over well if we didn't feed anyone anything, though I
may suggest we scale back to cheese/crackers and light apps, as
people have commented.
The leftover food is coming out of the church refrigerator, and
Tammy occasionally makes things in the church kitchen. It has
occasionally been potluck style, and I have occasionally offered
to pick up something on my way to it, though that's been
sporadic and she rarely takes me up on it. Tammy doesn't seem to
plan ahead or know what she's going to do until the day of. I
know a lot about Tammy's work life and it really just irks me
that she claims this is important and then acts like it's an
afterthought. Part of the reason that I needed to post here was
to cool off about it for a bit and gather my thoughts so I don't
end up saying anything rude or uncharitable about how my mother
raised me better (which I am aware is 100% not productive at
all, etc.).
I think that when we're going over the budget for the group I'll
bring it up then and say that we need to start budgeting for
fresh food, and to start prepping it in a very appealing way
because we're welcoming people as guests. The people we draw in
are hard working, professional, punctual types of people. They
expect things to start on time, for things to be presented well,
and to not be an afterthought. I'll ask her what other resources
she needs and if there's anything I can do to help. It may
simply be that Tammy needs someone to draw up meal plans for
her, which I'm happy to do. If she takes offense then I'll say
that part of welcoming people is making them feel like they're a
priority and putting our best food forward, and our best foot
isn't leftovers from another church event, or too few options
for them to feel included. Doing things like serving wilted
lettuce, things past their best by date, and "questionable"
items is fine for at home, but it's not inclusive (Tammy
actually loves that word) of other people and can make them feel
uncomfortable.
[/quote]
The "type" of people being drawn in should not matter. It's not
okay to treat anyone like this.
#Post#: 32852--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wednesday night church dinner concerns
By: Victoria Date: June 13, 2019, 6:08 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Hello Ducky link=topic=1189.msg32850#msg32850
date=1560466174]
[quote author=Victoria link=topic=1189.msg32849#msg32849
date=1560465803]
As a clarification, the event is marketed as a dinner. Because
of the day/time there is food involved and I don't think that it
would go over well if we didn't feed anyone anything, though I
may suggest we scale back to cheese/crackers and light apps, as
people have commented.
The leftover food is coming out of the church refrigerator, and
Tammy occasionally makes things in the church kitchen. It has
occasionally been potluck style, and I have occasionally offered
to pick up something on my way to it, though that's been
sporadic and she rarely takes me up on it. Tammy doesn't seem to
plan ahead or know what she's going to do until the day of. I
know a lot about Tammy's work life and it really just irks me
that she claims this is important and then acts like it's an
afterthought. Part of the reason that I needed to post here was
to cool off about it for a bit and gather my thoughts so I don't
end up saying anything rude or uncharitable about how my mother
raised me better (which I am aware is 100% not productive at
all, etc.).
I think that when we're going over the budget for the group I'll
bring it up then and say that we need to start budgeting for
fresh food, and to start prepping it in a very appealing way
because we're welcoming people as guests. The people we draw in
are hard working, professional, punctual types of people. They
expect things to start on time, for things to be presented well,
and to not be an afterthought. I'll ask her what other resources
she needs and if there's anything I can do to help. It may
simply be that Tammy needs someone to draw up meal plans for
her, which I'm happy to do. If she takes offense then I'll say
that part of welcoming people is making them feel like they're a
priority and putting our best food forward, and our best foot
isn't leftovers from another church event, or too few options
for them to feel included. Doing things like serving wilted
lettuce, things past their best by date, and "questionable"
items is fine for at home, but it's not inclusive (Tammy
actually loves that word) of other people and can make them feel
uncomfortable.
[/quote]
The "type" of people being drawn in should not matter. It's not
okay to treat anyone like this.
[/quote]
In Tammy’s mind, she’s not treating anyone like anything, this
is just The Way We Do Things. Pointing out that we’re not all
the type of people who call ourselves “free spirits” and “will
eat anything without visible mold or just cut the mold off”
(like our mutual friend) will probably be an important part of
persuading her to change. I honestly don’t expect that she will
agree with my sentiment that this is unacceptable behavior
period.
#Post#: 32854--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wednesday night church dinner concerns
By: Lilac Date: June 13, 2019, 6:21 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Is Tammy a paid staff member? What are her other roles? Is
this her first experience as an event / catering planner? What
is the weekly budget? Does someone need to reassure her that
the funds are available and she is not required to stint on food
to save the church some money?
Could a "hospitality committee" be formed to relieve her of
planning and executing the meals for this meeting?
I'm trying to come up with some wording for you.
"Tammy, I wanted to speak with you about the meal service at the
weekly meetings. It seems that we have slipped into a very
informal routine as regards the source of the food and the
presentation. We need to be more formal and profesisonal in
designing menus and offering fresh food, not leftovers from
other events. It's important to treat our guests like the
welcome visitors they are. I appreciate your efforts to
economize and be a good steward of church funds, but we have a
firm budget for these meetings. From now on we will use $100
per week to purchase fresh items. Do you like the idea of
pizza, or would a deli tray from the supermarket be better?"
Actually I think I would have a hard time being tactful if
picked-over leavings and crusty salad dressing bottles were
being presented to guests. "What we serve reflects on the
entire church community and I am not comfortable with the
impression we are giving our guests by setting out a random
assortment of food and unsanitary condiments."
"Not everyone is comfortable eating food that has been picked
over by strangers and that has been sitting in a communal fridge
for several days. Let's leave those for the staff and organize
something fresh for our guests."
"Let's come up with a monthly menu plan. Week 1: Pizza or tacos
from the nearby carryout place. Week 2: Sandwich platter,
rolls and a veggie tray. Week 3: Rotisserie chicken and corn on
the cob from the market on the corner. Week 4: Lasagna and
garlic bread (from the supermarket/food service store or a
nearby restaurant). We will repeat this menu each month.
Members who want to supply brownies are welcome to do so.
Coffee and iced tea will accompany each meal. Thanks so much."
#Post#: 32874--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wednesday night church dinner concerns
By: Hmmm Date: June 14, 2019, 9:36 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Victoria link=topic=1189.msg32852#msg32852
date=1560467316]
[quote author=Hello Ducky link=topic=1189.msg32850#msg32850
date=1560466174]
[quote author=Victoria link=topic=1189.msg32849#msg32849
date=1560465803]
As a clarification, the event is marketed as a dinner. Because
of the day/time there is food involved and I don't think that it
would go over well if we didn't feed anyone anything, though I
may suggest we scale back to cheese/crackers and light apps, as
people have commented.
The leftover food is coming out of the church refrigerator, and
Tammy occasionally makes things in the church kitchen. It has
occasionally been potluck style, and I have occasionally offered
to pick up something on my way to it, though that's been
sporadic and she rarely takes me up on it. Tammy doesn't seem to
plan ahead or know what she's going to do until the day of. I
know a lot about Tammy's work life and it really just irks me
that she claims this is important and then acts like it's an
afterthought. Part of the reason that I needed to post here was
to cool off about it for a bit and gather my thoughts so I don't
end up saying anything rude or uncharitable about how my mother
raised me better (which I am aware is 100% not productive at
all, etc.).
I think that when we're going over the budget for the group I'll
bring it up then and say that we need to start budgeting for
fresh food, and to start prepping it in a very appealing way
because we're welcoming people as guests. The people we draw in
are hard working, professional, punctual types of people. They
expect things to start on time, for things to be presented well,
and to not be an afterthought. I'll ask her what other resources
she needs and if there's anything I can do to help. It may
simply be that Tammy needs someone to draw up meal plans for
her, which I'm happy to do. If she takes offense then I'll say
that part of welcoming people is making them feel like they're a
priority and putting our best food forward, and our best foot
isn't leftovers from another church event, or too few options
for them to feel included. Doing things like serving wilted
lettuce, things past their best by date, and "questionable"
items is fine for at home, but it's not inclusive (Tammy
actually loves that word) of other people and can make them feel
uncomfortable.
[/quote]
The "type" of people being drawn in should not matter. It's not
okay to treat anyone like this.
[/quote]
In Tammy’s mind, she’s not treating anyone like anything, this
is just The Way We Do Things. Pointing out that we’re not all
the type of people who call ourselves “free spirits” and “will
eat anything without visible mold or just cut the mold off”
(like our mutual friend) will probably be an important part of
persuading her to change. I honestly don’t expect that she will
agree with my sentiment that this is unacceptable behavior
period.
[/quote]
Does Tammy have responsibility for all of the church catering or
what exactly is her role? Are you the assigned coordinator or
leader of the Wednesday night bible study?
I'd just say that doing the leftover thing is no longer working
for you this group and you'll be putting together a weekly menu
of items that can be catered in. If she objects just say you are
uncomfortable offering food that you do not know has been
properly stored or hasn't been contaminated by someone ill in a
different group. Give her a list of 4 places that deliver or
that is convenient for you to pick up from on your way and then
be done with it.
#Post#: 32919--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wednesday night church dinner concerns
By: Hanna Date: June 15, 2019, 12:37 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Aren’t church kitchens held to the health codes in most states?
I’d make it about that. “The health dept doesn’t allow us to
serve leftover food.” Or some better worded version of that.
I’d also start just throwing out any leftovers at every
opportunity.
#Post#: 32924--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wednesday night church dinner concerns
By: Aleko Date: June 15, 2019, 5:07 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hanna, I think you've just cut the Gordian knot. Pointing out
that the church could get into legal trouble serving those
leftovers bypasses all the issues of "is it respectful?", "is it
pleasant?", "is it sanitary?" that could be argued over or cause
offence.
#Post#: 32930--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wednesday night church dinner concerns
By: jpcher Date: June 15, 2019, 9:42 am
---------------------------------------------------------
LOL! I had all sorts of thoughts of how to reply going through
my mind as I was reading the thread. I especially liked Lilac's
several different and very polite responses.
THEN! Hanna to the rescue![emoji1319]
Oh, my. Safety does trump etiquette, doesn't it.
Along with Aleko's response . . . I had to look up Gordian Knot.
Wiki definition: "The Gordian Knot is a legend of Phrygian
Gordium associated with Alexander the Great. It is often used as
a metaphor for an intractable problem (untying an
impossibly-tangled knot) solved easily by finding an approach to
the problem that renders the perceived constraints of the
problem moot ("cutting the Gordian knot"):"
Yes! Cut to the chase.
You could dress it up with gentle suggestions as to how to
improve the service of leftovers with ideas about menus, etc.
but the main point is that the food offered may be unhealthy.
Why skirt the real issue by hiding behind etiquette?
Health issues, in my opinion, renders the problem moot.
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