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       #Post#: 30350--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Revealing dissent vs. keeping the peace
   DIR By: lakey
       Date: May 2, 2019, 10:50 pm
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       --- Quote ---
       > Re: Revealing dissent vs. keeping the peace
       > « Reply #54 on: May 01, 2019, 11:02:41 am »
       > Quote
       > Quote from: Winterlight on May 01, 2019, 10:21:55 am
       > Kimmy sounds like a pretty awful person. One of these days
       she's going to do this to someone who has been told they can't
       have children for (painful medical reason) or who has just had a
       miscarriage. At that point, she deserves the fallout she gets.
       > I agree.  Also, this kind of sustained insistence upon
       discussing any topic, despite the other person clearly trying to
       deflect is really obnoxious.
       --- End Quote ---
       This is where I fall. I have a sister who is like this. She
       starts up about something and she will not stop. If things get
       uncomfortable because the victim is frustrated, then that is on
       the overbearing person, and I would think that the couple of
       other people in the party would understand. I am a traditional
       type and would find antinatalist views strange. However, if I
       were in a group and a childless person was being badgered about
       having children, I would still sympathize with the antinatalist.
       People need to learn to mind their own business, and
       occasionally the only way to get that across is to be blunt. The
       person being badgered in this situation tried to change the
       conversation nicely and it didn't work, so she did what she had
       to do.
       #Post#: 30424--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Revealing dissent vs. keeping the peace
   DIR By: LifeOnPluto
       Date: May 3, 2019, 11:27 pm
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       Another possible response Fiona could have deployed, is to say
       to Kimmy: "Why are you being so weird about this?"
       Because she (Kimmy) IS being weird via her outrageous pushiness
       about having children!
       #Post#: 30438--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Revealing dissent vs. keeping the peace
   DIR By: peony
       Date: May 4, 2019, 8:18 am
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       When I am pressed and pressed my intention is to respond
       courteously, but if it goes too far I tend to lose my presence
       of mind and reply strongly and directly. Fiona might have chosen
       a different response, but being pestered might have been a
       factor in her straightforward reply.
       #Post#: 30446--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Revealing dissent vs. keeping the peace
   DIR By: Dr. F.
       Date: May 4, 2019, 9:31 am
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       I've been thinking about this, and if I were being relentlessly
       harassed by someone like Kimmy, I might claim to be an
       antinatalist even if I wasn't, just to get the stupid woman to
       shut up and go away.
       Honestly, I would be rethinking being part of that friend group.
       I would now know that none of them are willing to stand up for
       me when I was being attacked and harassed. That's not really
       what I want in friends.
       #Post#: 30458--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Revealing dissent vs. keeping the peace
   DIR By: Hanna
       Date: May 4, 2019, 12:37 pm
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       --- Quote from: Dr. F. link ---
       >
       > I've been thinking about this, and if I were being
       relentlessly harassed by someone like Kimmy, I might claim to be
       an antinatalist even if I wasn't, just to get the stupid woman
       to shut up and go away.
       >
       > Honestly, I would be rethinking being part of that friend
       group. I would now know that none of them are willing to stand
       up for me when I was being attacked and harassed. That's not
       really what I want in friends.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I thought the same thing. Alternatively someone might say “well
       yours haven’t made me want any” just to shut her up.
       I must live on a different planet because no one ever bothered
       me about having kids. I’m really thankful for that. A few have
       asked politely if I wanted them, etc. I personally never minded
       that.
       #Post#: 30507--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Revealing dissent vs. keeping the peace
   DIR By: Copper Horsewoman
       Date: May 5, 2019, 6:41 pm
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       We are childless by choice and long past any remedy for that
       (unless, Sarah laughed - see the story of Abraham and Sarah) I
       would periodically ask my dh, and he was not for the idea of
       children either. We are delighted by other people's kids, just
       never wanted any of our own, not vehemently against anyone
       having them. Only got badgered once early in our marriage by a
       distant nosy husband's relative. My MIL, bless her, saw the
       steam rising from my ears, and steered her away.
       #Post#: 30513--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Revealing dissent vs. keeping the peace
   DIR By: Twik
       Date: May 5, 2019, 7:50 pm
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       I think that they're both being rather rude. Obviously,
       hectoring someone over not having children is just totally
       awful. But announcing that you feel it's morally wrong to have
       children in front of parents is like announcing that meat is
       murder at a dinner party just as people are munching their beef
       tips. It would be quite possible to say she doesn't have
       children because she doesn't want to, rather than implying it's
       because she's just a better person than the others around her.
       #Post#: 30523--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Revealing dissent vs. keeping the peace
   DIR By: Aleko
       Date: May 6, 2019, 3:17 am
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       --- Quote ---
       > It would be quite possible to say she doesn't have children
       because she doesn't want to
       --- End Quote ---
       - Cue Kimmy's inevitable response 'Oh, but you'll feel so
       differently when you have them!' In fact, for all we know Fiona
       did say that, and was brushed aside in some such words.
       #Post#: 30530--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Revealing dissent vs. keeping the peace
   DIR By: peony
       Date: May 6, 2019, 7:14 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Twik link ---
       >
       > I think that they're both being rather rude. Obviously,
       hectoring someone over not having children is just totally
       awful. But announcing that you feel it's morally wrong to have
       children in front of parents is like announcing that meat is
       murder at a dinner party just as people are munching their beef
       tips. It would be quite possible to say she doesn't have
       children because she doesn't want to, rather than implying it's
       because she's just a better person than the others around her.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I agree , but IMO she was unduly provoked and gets a one-time
       pass, under these particular circumstances.
       #Post#: 30534--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Revealing dissent vs. keeping the peace
   DIR By: Hmmm
       Date: May 6, 2019, 8:57 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Twik link ---
       >
       > I think that they're both being rather rude. Obviously,
       hectoring someone over not having children is just totally
       awful. But announcing that you feel it's morally wrong to have
       children in front of parents is like announcing that meat is
       murder at a dinner party just as people are munching their beef
       tips. It would be quite possible to say she doesn't have
       children because she doesn't want to, rather than implying it's
       because she's just a better person than the others around her.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       If a vegetarian is being harassed at a dinner party about why
       they eat meat over and over, then it's fine for them to give the
       honest truth about why they are vegetarian. And if anyone is put
       off by now eating their steak then they should be made at the
       person harassing the vegetarian.
       How long does a vegetarian have to listen to:
       But why don't you like meat?
       Is it the texture? Is it the flavor?
       Maybe you just haven't tried the right type of meat.
       I bet if you tried my chicken you would love it. Would you like
       to try a bite of it?
       Have you tried veal? Veal is very mild and tender. I bet you'd
       love it.
       How about fish, do you eat fish? Fish really isn't an animal and
       I know lots of vegetarians who eat fish, well one who only eats
       shellfish. Why don't you try some shrimp?
       Is it a religious issue? What religion are you?
       Because in my rule book, after the third attempt  of not
       engaging, they have every right to state they believe eating
       meat is morally wrong. They do not have to hide their opinions
       just because they do not mesh with the majority of the people
       present.
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