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#Post#: 28664--------------------------------------------------
Re: Standing up for other passengers undergoing harassment
DIR By: pierrotlunaire0
Date: March 30, 2019, 2:22 pm
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To follow up on what Toots just said:
Years ago at a job, there was a group of mostly women with a few
men in the lunchroom, and somehow we got talking about
creepy/harassing encounters we had had. Every woman there had a
story of her own (the man who ran up to a woman in a Walmart
parking lot and exposed himself, the woman who turned around in
a drugstore to say, "Will you stop standing so close to me?"
only to realize that the man was openly masturbating, and so on
and so forth).
So every woman there had a personal experience, and you could
see that the men were openly shocked that this was so common.
This really happened to us?!? Yes, this is something that every
woman must be aware of always. The guys had no idea.
#Post#: 28674--------------------------------------------------
Re: Standing up for other passengers undergoing harassment
DIR By: hovlane
Date: March 30, 2019, 4:53 pm
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Obviously I have never discussed sexual harassment with every
woman I've met, but I can tell you that every woman with whom
I've had this discussion, they've experienced everything from
harassment to rape. Every single one.
Draw your own conclusions.
#Post#: 28683--------------------------------------------------
Re: Standing up for other passengers undergoing harassment
DIR By: Dazi
Date: March 30, 2019, 6:02 pm
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--- Quote from: hovlane link ---
>
> Obviously I have never discussed sexual harassment with every
woman I've met, but I can tell you that every woman with whom
I've had this discussion, they've experienced everything from
harassment to rape. Every single one.
>
> Draw your own conclusions.
>
--- End Quote ---
I once got into a very heated argument with a young man I knew
about this very topic. He had quoted me some totally bogus
statistics on the matter. I told him flat out that I could just
about guarantee that nearly every woman he knew had either been
a victim of sexual harassment, sexual assault, or raped and if
they hadn't been it really was probably only a matter of time.
He thought I was absolutely insane... Until he started talking
to them about it. Then he was mortified to find out I was
absolutely correct in everything I told him.
#Post#: 28715--------------------------------------------------
Re: Standing up for other passengers undergoing harassment
DIR By: TootsNYC
Date: March 31, 2019, 6:41 pm
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I used to think that I had somehow escaped--a combo of sheer
dumb luck and an abundance of caution (re: parties, etc.)
Then I remembered the college instructor who came in the
incredibly isolated radio studio and I was nervous about him,
and then he stood behind me and started rubbing my shoulders. I
told him, "Don't touch me, Al." When he started saying, Oh, I'm
just being friendly, I said, "Don't touch me." And he left.
And there was the security guard working his first night at the
office when I was working late one night; I was friendly, and
suddenly there he was in the door suggesting that we have sex. I
said, No, thanks, not interested. He suggested it; I said I had
a boyfriend, and he said, "He doesn't need to know." I finally
got rid of him, and like a doofus I stayed working, but I locked
my office door and I went to the photocopier by the back way.
And I didn't tell anyone until a couple of months later, I told
a friend who worked for the exec in charge of security, and he
said, "We'd have fired him; you should have told me, I'm telling
her anyway so she can contact his agency, they need to know."
So yeah. Those weren't particularly traumatic; nervous-making at
the time, of course, but I didn't really struggle with the
aftermath.
#Post#: 28738--------------------------------------------------
Re: Standing up for other passengers undergoing harassment
DIR By: Kiwipinball
Date: March 31, 2019, 9:38 pm
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I think one of the reasons it can be so much
scarier/traumatizing for women (I'm talking about unwanted
attention/low levels of harassment here) is that in the back of
many/most women's minds is what could happen if they say no (at
all, too forcefully, in the wrong way). There are women who have
been murdered for rejecting men. It's not common, but it has
happened. Men have attacked women for rejecting them
(physically, verbally, etc). So for me and my friends, when
there was a guy (or guys) making unwanted "advances" (I don't
think most of them were actually hitting on us - they were
clearly going about it ways that no one would expect to lead to
a date), we had to try to balance how to get out of the
situation without unduly angering the guy - because we didn't
know what he'd do. Some of my friends and I would actually be
mad at each other after the fact. I'd think they were being too
nice (e.g. not sending signal to others who might be inclined to
help that we were NOT okay with the situation) and they thought
I was being too cold (e.g. increasing the chance of a very
negative reaction from the guy). The thing is, none of us were
wrong. There's no way to tell ahead of time what the
consequences are. But when you're not sure you can safely tell
someone to leave you alone, unwanted attention is much more
traumatic.
#Post#: 28741--------------------------------------------------
Re: Standing up for other passengers undergoing harassment
DIR By: MinMom3
Date: March 31, 2019, 10:44 pm
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--- Quote from: Hmmm link ---
>
> [quote author=LifeOnPluto link=topic=1064.msg28438#msg28438
date=1553683076]
> I read a different article on this, which mentioned that the
girl was travelling with her parents, but seated separately from
them. if that's the case, but the plane still had empty seats, I
wonder why the airline didn't seat them all together? It sounds
like it wasn't a very full flight at all, if other passengers
had whole rows to themselves. I think the airline generally
dropped the ball by seating the girl away from her parents and
next to a middle aged male stranger instead.
>
--- End Quote ---
I don't think the airline has the responsibility to track
whether 2 passengers know each other and the age of each
passenger. Anyway, I don't remember the last time an airline
assigned me a seat versus me selecting an available seat when I
purchased or checked in for my flight. If the girl or the
parents wanted their teenager to sit with them, they should have
made those arrangements. If she or the parents were
uncomfortable with her sitting in a row with a stranger, then
they could have traded seats.
DD and I were once flying international and ended up in a center
row with 3 seats. The man in our row seemed a little too happy
to see DD starting to take the middle seat and his
disappointment was noticeable when I switched seats. But I would
never have expected the airline to track if a ma unknown to our
family was seated next to my DD.
But I do agree that had I overheard the conversation, I would
have intervened much earlier.
[/quote]
I think the airline has a DUTY to keep track of minor children,
to confirm that they ARE minor children, and to ask if they are
flying solo or with a parent or guardian, and to take that into
consideration when seating them. I totally agree the airline
dropped the ball here. I'd be wicked angry with the airline if
that were my child.
#Post#: 28763--------------------------------------------------
Re: Standing up for other passengers undergoing harassment
DIR By: TootsNYC
Date: April 1, 2019, 11:45 am
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--- Quote ---
> There are women who have been murdered for rejecting men. It's
not common, but it has happened.
--- End Quote ---
And for every many who has actually attacked a woman for
rejecting him, there are hundreds and hundreds who have been
nasty when a woman rejected them.
And that's scary even if you don't think you might get hurt.
Verbal attacks are a form of violence.
#Post#: 28779--------------------------------------------------
Re: Standing up for other passengers undergoing harassment
DIR By: Contrarian
Date: April 1, 2019, 4:05 pm
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How did they know no male was bothered by this? It’s hard
sometimes for a man to step in without being accused of thinking
that women can’t stand up for themselves. Was the idea that
because men didn’t respond at the same time or faster that they
weren’t bothered?
#Post#: 28782--------------------------------------------------
Re: Standing up for other passengers undergoing harassment
DIR By: hovlane
Date: April 1, 2019, 4:29 pm
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She was 15.
As for your assertion that men can be reluctant to speak up when
they see a woman being harassed under the guise of "she can
stand up for herself" perhaps that's true. If so, she'll let him
know. Is the male ego so fragile they'll risk seeing someone
harassed (or worse) because they're afraid of being embarrassed?
#Post#: 28784--------------------------------------------------
Re: Standing up for other passengers undergoing harassment
DIR By: Venus193
Date: April 1, 2019, 6:53 pm
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Too many men don't take this seriously. Some don't even care if
it bothers women. Some want to see us as Stepford Wives with no
feelings to give themselves an excuse.
And for something like this to happen in a confined space like
an airplane in flight where the victim is captive is
inexcusable.
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