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#Post#: 28357--------------------------------------------------
Standing up for other passengers undergoing harassment
DIR By: Twik
Date: March 26, 2019, 9:42 am
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There's an interesting article here
HTML http://www.msn.com/en-ca/lifestyle/travel/i-saw-an-older-man-harassing-a-teen-girl-on-the-plane-heres-what-i-did-about-it/ar-BBVdJdH?ocid=ientp<br
/>about a woman protecting a younger girl she saw being harassed
on an airplane. The good news is that not only the writer
stepped in, but the aircrew did everything they could once
alerted.
I'm glad to see that most commentators on this story supported
the writer. I'm sure a few years ago people would have felt
doing what she did was "rude" or "intrusive," not an essential
part of making public transport safe for everyone.
#Post#: 28362--------------------------------------------------
Re: Standing up for other passengers undergoing harassment
DIR By: Jayhawk
Date: March 26, 2019, 10:29 am
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I saw that article too and was so happy that those women stood
up for the young lady and that the crew did the right thing.
Glad to see that folks are being more aware of this lately.
Definitely a case of safety trumps etiquette.
#Post#: 28372--------------------------------------------------
Re: Standing up for other passengers undergoing harassment
DIR By: TootsNYC
Date: March 26, 2019, 1:38 pm
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The only thing I would say is that I wish both of those women
had stood up and engaged in the conversation well BEFORE he got
a chance to ask for a "dirty" picture.
Not confront him. Just stand up and join the conversation. And
maybe even offer for her to come sit by me and talk.
In fact, I'm not happy that on a mostly empty plane, the flight
attendant left the teenager seated in a row with a middle-aged
man.
Sure, he might be perfectly nice. But there's no requirement to
make her run that risk.
#Post#: 28391--------------------------------------------------
Re: Standing up for other passengers undergoing harassment
DIR By: TootsNYC
Date: March 26, 2019, 4:11 pm
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The more I think about this, the more frustrated I am that they
both waited so long to interject themselves into the
conversation.
Holy shit, it was a 15yo with a guy belittling her plans on
sexist grounds. It had to have been uncomfortable even if he
never advanced to anything sex related. She was trapped in the
row with him; she was young enough to not have a lot of life
experience extricating herself, and they should have had her
back earlier.
The thing I think we should think about is, it's NOT about
confronting anyone.
It's about making a connection with the potential target or
victim.
In her essay, she mentions not wanting to interfere with
flirting.
If flirting is going on, you can still say hello, or "Oh, my
[fictitious] nephew is planning to attend the same college. What
attracted you to it?Oh, sorry to pop my head over the airplane
seat and join your conversation, but I couldn't help but
overhear. I should get you to come sit with me and tell me about
it." And you can leave that conversation--and if it's flirting,
they'll probably start up again.
It's about letting the guy know that someone else is actually
paying attention. If he's a good guy, he'll think it's nice. If
he's a predator, he'll be on notice.
And the potential victim knows someone else is friendly to her.
#Post#: 28392--------------------------------------------------
Re: Standing up for other passengers undergoing harassment
DIR By: TootsNYC
Date: March 26, 2019, 4:16 pm
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(I'm kind of blowing this up--sorry!)
There was this paragraph:
--- Quote ---
> BWSS has published an online resource, where suggestions for
bystanders include: Ask the woman, “Are they bothering you?,”
loudly saying “ugh, that is so gross,” making eye contact with
some other bystanders and ask, “What should we do to help?”
>
--- End Quote ---
I think that these sorts of suggestions actually discourage
people from acting--they think,"I don't know if it's gross," or
"She's handling it, I don't want to make it worse for her."
And it's just so confrontational.
Especially on an airplane--just join the conversation.
If you're close enough to see or hear, you're close enough to
interject yourself into the conversation. And to invite the
potential victim to meet you somewhere else (if you're both
women, "come with me back to the bathroom; we can chat in line,
I want to hear about your school/job/vacation plans").
You've created an "out."
Sure, you don't have a big "justice rolls down like waters"
moment--but is that really more helpful than this poor kid NOT
having some gross guy ask her for dirty pictures?
If the woman had stood up and said, "want to come sit by me? I'd
like to hear about your X," I think that girl would have said,
"oh, OK."
#Post#: 28394--------------------------------------------------
Re: Standing up for other passengers undergoing harassment
DIR By: Nikko-chan
Date: March 26, 2019, 4:24 pm
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--- Quote from: TootsNYC link ---
>
> The more I think about this, the more frustrated I am that
they both waited so long to interject themselves into the
conversation.
>
> Holy shit, it was a 15yo with a guy belittling her plans on
sexist grounds. It had to have been uncomfortable even if he
never advanced to anything sex related. She was trapped in the
row with him; she was young enough to not have a lot of life
experience extricating herself, and they should have had her
back earlier.
>
> The thing I think we should think about is, it's NOT about
confronting anyone.
>
> It's about making a connection with the potential target or
victim.
>
>
> In her essay, she mentions not wanting to interfere with
flirting.
> If flirting is going on, you can still say hello, or "Oh, my
[fictitious] nephew is planning to attend the same college. What
attracted you to it?Oh, sorry to pop my head over the airplane
seat and join your conversation, but I couldn't help but
overhear. I should get you to come sit with me and tell me about
it." And you can leave that conversation--and if it's flirting,
they'll probably start up again.
>
> It's about letting the guy know that someone else is actually
paying attention. If he's a good guy, he'll think it's nice. If
he's a predator, he'll be on notice.
> And the potential victim knows someone else is friendly to
her.
>
--- End Quote ---
RE the bolded. Exactly this! And if you already know the person
is a child, there should be no hesitation whatsoever! "Come and
sit next to us" and depending on situation, have one of the
people trade seats with the girl. Bet he doesn't wanna sit next
to someone his own age!
Another suggestion if anyone ever comes across this situation:
Planes from my understanding are three seats in a row. If you
(general you) see this happening, one of you trade seats with
her and the other two put her in the middle of you both. It
sends a very clear message to the creeper of "Hell no, not on my
watch!"
I think they did correctly by alerting the staff right away
though.
#Post#: 28438--------------------------------------------------
Re: Standing up for other passengers undergoing harassment
DIR By: LifeOnPluto
Date: March 27, 2019, 5:37 am
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I read a different article on this, which mentioned that the
girl was travelling with her parents, but seated separately from
them. if that's the case, but the plane still had empty seats, I
wonder why the airline didn't seat them all together? It sounds
like it wasn't a very full flight at all, if other passengers
had whole rows to themselves. I think the airline generally
dropped the ball by seating the girl away from her parents and
next to a middle aged male stranger instead.
#Post#: 28452--------------------------------------------------
Re: Standing up for other passengers undergoing harassment
DIR By: Hmmm
Date: March 27, 2019, 10:21 am
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--- Quote from: LifeOnPluto link ---
>
> I read a different article on this, which mentioned that the
girl was travelling with her parents, but seated separately from
them. if that's the case, but the plane still had empty seats, I
wonder why the airline didn't seat them all together? It sounds
like it wasn't a very full flight at all, if other passengers
had whole rows to themselves. I think the airline generally
dropped the ball by seating the girl away from her parents and
next to a middle aged male stranger instead.
>
--- End Quote ---
I don't think the airline has the responsibility to track
whether 2 passengers know each other and the age of each
passenger. Anyway, I don't remember the last time an airline
assigned me a seat versus me selecting an available seat when I
purchased or checked in for my flight. If the girl or the
parents wanted their teenager to sit with them, they should have
made those arrangements. If she or the parents were
uncomfortable with her sitting in a row with a stranger, then
they could have traded seats.
DD and I were once flying international and ended up in a center
row with 3 seats. The man in our row seemed a little too happy
to see DD starting to take the middle seat and his
disappointment was noticeable when I switched seats. But I would
never have expected the airline to track if a ma unknown to our
family was seated next to my DD.
But I do agree that had I overheard the conversation, I would
have intervened much earlier.
#Post#: 28453--------------------------------------------------
Re: Standing up for other passengers undergoing harassment
DIR By: Twik
Date: March 27, 2019, 10:26 am
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I think this is a side issue, but important in its own right.
The travel/hospitality industry has been built on a general
trust that we are all decent human beings, and won't abuse each
other during travel. But this is a "this is why we can't have
nice things" situation. Carriers and hotels will, I predict,
have to start putting in more proactive means of keeping
children travelling solo safe, not to mention considering
specific needs of women solo travellers.
I remember many years ago my cousin, a flight attendant, telling
how when a pre-teen child was left stranded overnight by a
cancelled flight, the attendants themselves decided to take her
to their room so she didn't have to stay alone in an
almost-empty airport. Nowadays that would be problematic in its
own right, but there has to be a solution. Just today there was
a news story about a 15 year old girl left without a flight due
to airline snafus, having to sit up all night in the airport.
There should be a guarantee that this doesn't happen. If nothing
else, she should have been provided with a room at an airport
hotel, and verified safe transport to and from there.
#Post#: 28461--------------------------------------------------
Re: Standing up for other passengers undergoing harassment
DIR By: Hmmm
Date: March 27, 2019, 11:24 am
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--- Quote from: Twik link ---
>
> I think this is a side issue, but important in its own right.
The travel/hospitality industry has been built on a general
trust that we are all decent human beings, and won't abuse each
other during travel. But this is a "this is why we can't have
nice things" situation. Carriers and hotels will, I predict,
have to start putting in more proactive means of keeping
children travelling solo safe, not to mention considering
specific needs of women solo travellers.
>
> I remember many years ago my cousin, a flight attendant,
telling how when a pre-teen child was left stranded overnight by
a cancelled flight, the attendants themselves decided to take
her to their room so she didn't have to stay alone in an
almost-empty airport. Nowadays that would be problematic in its
own right, but there has to be a solution. Just today there was
a news story about a 15 year old girl left without a flight due
to airline snafus, having to sit up all night in the airport.
There should be a guarantee that this doesn't happen. If nothing
else, she should have been provided with a room at an airport
hotel, and verified safe transport to and from there.
>
--- End Quote ---
I'm sure each airline is different, but I know that
unaccompanied minors services for some are only available for
ages 5 to 14. They also only allow use of direct flights and
charge an upcharge. So I still think the parents must take some
responsibility for deciding they are ok with their 15 year old
traveling alone and doing pre-planning if a flight gets
cancelled or diverted. In the case noted, the 15 year old was
doing a connecting flight. I don't think it is necessarily fair
of the parents to want to shift temporary guardianship
responsibility to an airline without paying a premium for that
service.
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