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#Post#: 28266--------------------------------------------------
Re: "Too Intrusive" or Something Else?
By: Twik Date: March 25, 2019, 10:37 am
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It's funny how communication styles change, but there's always
the doomsayers who proclaim that *this* change is the End of
Everything.
Remember before the telephone, people corresponded with those
not immediately in their vicinity by text a lot. They were
called "letters," and when the telephone came in, it was
bemoaned that people would lose the art of writing them. Texting
is helping people rediscover how to communicate by written word,
but because texts imitate the flow of a conversation, we do have
the "tone" problem, which - surprise! - people are solving by
things like emojis or just writing longer sentences.
I don't think it's the end of human communication if we have to
spend a few minutes gazing at our phones trying to figure out
how to send a message that implies "moderate enthusiasm for your
plans for our get-together, but I'd like to see if an alternate
option would also be acceptable to you."
Autocorrect might end human communication by turning all
sensible sentences into gibberish, but that's another matter.
#Post#: 28323--------------------------------------------------
Re: "Too Intrusive" or Something Else?
By: GardenGal Date: March 25, 2019, 7:00 pm
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One of the benefits, to my mind, of being over 70 is that none
of my equally aged friends has this attitude. In fact, I refuse
to get a smart phone, clinging instead to my cell phone, thank
you very much. I don't send texts. I don't read texts. None
of my friends text me (because, if asked, I tell them I don't
text). I just want to make phone calls on the phone, and
receive phone calls. I know I'm in a tiny minority here, but if
anyone told me it was intrusive of me to call them without
texting first I'd have to tell them that I would never be able
to call them. When I want to tell someone something, I phone
them (or, occasionally, I'll send an email). I always ask if
this is a good time to talk, and I'm always happy to call back
if my timing is inconvenient.
#Post#: 28346--------------------------------------------------
Re: "Too Intrusive" or Something Else?
By: Aleko Date: March 26, 2019, 4:53 am
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I think that if you are calling someone in their business hours,
it's only polite to text asking them if it's convenient. If your
call is personal they may well not be in a situation to take
such calls at all; and if you want to talk about business it's
helpful for them to be able to gather their thoughts on the
subject and make sure they have time to hear you out. Nobody
wants to be bounced by a business proposition.
And if you just want a long chat with a friend, if you don't
know for sure that X is normally a good time for them it's a
smart move to check first. One of my dearest friends, who lives
in Scotland, is often moved to call for a lovely long chat just
after she has finished her supper - which is generally about the
time that I'm just serving up ours. It feels rotten choking her
off, which I wouldn't have to do if she ever thought to text
first.
#Post#: 28348--------------------------------------------------
Re: "Too Intrusive" or Something Else?
By: Venus193 Date: March 26, 2019, 6:37 am
---------------------------------------------------------
To an earlier reply, I don't see letter writing as comparable.
What is potentially lost from that is the capability of literary
composition because it was not a conversation. Letters also
contained a person's or a family's history. I have mixed
feelings about family members who burned years' worth of
letters.
Letters also could be evidence in a lawsuit. My college buddy
once dated a girl who desperately wanted to marry him but he
broke up with her because she was too possessive and difficult
in other ways. Had he ever put a marriage proposal in writing
or written "When we're married..." she could have brought a
breach of promise suit against him, like in the film The French
Lieutenant's Woman. He scoffed at that, but trust me on this
one; she was capable of this.
Conversation is immediate and over the phone you at least have
tone of voice. I used AOL Instant Messenger with the
aforementioned friend for a while but it definitely lacked what
we got out of conversation.
If you don't have time to talk now you can always let it go to
voice mail.
#Post#: 28350--------------------------------------------------
Re: "Too Intrusive" or Something Else?
By: Hmmm Date: March 26, 2019, 8:25 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I personally like having all types of communication forms
available and am happy to use any of them depending on the
purpose of the occasion. In my work place, I started noticing
more people instant messaging "can I call" about 6 or 7 years
ago when before they'd just pick up the phone to call. Leaving
voicemails has become less and less common, which I'm happy
about as I'd rather then send an email if there are details I
need to know.
In personal communication, I've stopped leaving voicemails
because I know most people will just call me back instead of
listening to the voicemail. For people who might think there was
an emergency I might leave "nothing important, just checking
in".
If I'm making arrangements with a group, I'll text or email
details so that everyone has them. I only have one friend who
doesn't text, so if making arrangements with her, I know I need
to call or email. We no longer have any relatives who don't text
or expect a phone call for an invitation. If arrangements will
take more than a few texts, I do prefer calling.
I occasionally will get into "text conversations" with my adult
kids that might go on over a few hours, but it's usually because
one of us isn't available for a voice call and it's more of a
catch up. We know that it might be half an hour between chats.
Like others, if I am calling someone on a personal matter during
normal business hours, I'll text first, and I prefer others do
the same. If in a meeting, a text beep is a lot less distracting
than my phone ringing. I only silence my phone when I'm in a
meeting that even if it was a urgent, (business or personal),
I'd have to wait to leave. I'm not in the medical industry nor a
parent of minors so no one is going to die if I have to wait
half an hour to respond to something urgent.
I don't like using FB Messenger for long conversations because
it's not one of my standard forms of communication and I also
know FB can mine the data.
A friend and I were reminiscing about being in Jr High and our
parents getting so mad at us for tying up the phone for hours
and hours. My dad had the operator break into our calls more
than once because he'd been trying to call and couldn't get
through. There was always the mad rush of "I'll get it" when the
house phone would ring. I don't think either of my kids ever
voluntarily answered our house phone. They had cell phones by
12, I think. I don't think either of them has ever had a phone
conversation lasting more than 10 minutes. Even when they were
away at University, I'd get them to chat for a bit but other
than that it was texts. But I realized I seldom chat with
friends or family anymore. I have a couple of sisters that I
might have a 20 min conversation with a couple of times a month,
but that is about it.
#Post#: 28389--------------------------------------------------
Re: "Too Intrusive" or Something Else?
By: TootsNYC Date: March 26, 2019, 4:01 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Venus193 link=topic=1056.msg28348#msg28348
date=1553600279]
To an earlier reply, I don't see letter writing as comparable.
What is potentially lost from that is the capability of literary
composition because it was not a conversation. Letters also
contained a person's or a family's history. I have mixed
feelings about family members who burned years' worth of
letters.
Letters also could be evidence in a lawsuit. My college buddy
once dated a girl who desperately wanted to marry him but he
broke up with her because she was too possessive and difficult
in other ways. Had he ever put a marriage proposal in writing
or written "When we're married..." she could have brought a
breach of promise suit against him, like in the film The French
Lieutenant's Woman. He scoffed at that, but trust me on this
one; she was capable of this.
Conversation is immediate and over the phone you at least have
tone of voice. I used AOL Instant Messenger with the
aforementioned friend for a while but it definitely lacked what
we got out of conversation.
If you don't have time to talk now you can always let it go to
voice mail.
[/quote]
So can texts.
Also--breath of promise suits wouldn't be successful if the
relationship had not progressed to the point that she was making
concrete plans around it.
She can't force him to marry her, and unless she had spent money
(like, on a reception hall) or entered into contracts (like, she
had borrowed money on the strength of an upcoming wedding, or
perhaps turned down employment in another town because she
thought they'd marry), she wouldn't have had a case. True,
anyone can sue, but he could countersue for nuisance value, and
he would win.
And even then, today's courts don't regard those sorts of things
as being the damage that they were in a world in which a woman's
only income was to marry, and a man breaking a public engagement
would damage her reputation and mean she couldn't get another
husband.
A "when we marry" or "will you marry me" is not enough to win
that sort of suit.
#Post#: 28393--------------------------------------------------
Re: "Too Intrusive" or Something Else?
By: Hmmm Date: March 26, 2019, 4:20 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=TootsNYC link=topic=1056.msg28389#msg28389
date=1553634117]
[quote author=Venus193 link=topic=1056.msg28348#msg28348
date=1553600279]
To an earlier reply, I don't see letter writing as comparable.
What is potentially lost from that is the capability of literary
composition because it was not a conversation. Letters also
contained a person's or a family's history. I have mixed
feelings about family members who burned years' worth of
letters.
Letters also could be evidence in a lawsuit. My college buddy
once dated a girl who desperately wanted to marry him but he
broke up with her because she was too possessive and difficult
in other ways. Had he ever put a marriage proposal in writing
or written "When we're married..." she could have brought a
breach of promise suit against him, like in the film The French
Lieutenant's Woman. He scoffed at that, but trust me on this
one; she was capable of this.
Conversation is immediate and over the phone you at least have
tone of voice. I used AOL Instant Messenger with the
aforementioned friend for a while but it definitely lacked what
we got out of conversation.
If you don't have time to talk now you can always let it go to
voice mail.
[/quote]
So can texts.
Also--breath of promise suits wouldn't be successful if the
relationship had not progressed to the point that she was making
concrete plans around it.
She can't force him to marry her, and unless she had spent money
(like, on a reception hall) or entered into contracts (like, she
had borrowed money on the strength of an upcoming wedding, or
perhaps turned down employment in another town because she
thought they'd marry), she wouldn't have had a case. True,
anyone can sue, but he could countersue for nuisance value, and
he would win.
And even then, today's courts don't regard those sorts of things
as being the damage that they were in a world in which a woman's
only income was to marry, and a man breaking a public engagement
would damage her reputation and mean she couldn't get another
husband.
A "when we marry" or "will you marry me" is not enough to win
that sort of suit.
[/quote]
And at least 10 states in the US actually have laws that prevent
the ability to sue for breach of promise to marry.
#Post#: 28417--------------------------------------------------
Re: "Too Intrusive" or Something Else?
By: OnyxBird Date: March 26, 2019, 7:08 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Venus193 link=topic=1056.msg28348#msg28348
date=1553600279]
Conversation is immediate and over the phone you at least have
tone of voice. I used AOL Instant Messenger with the
aforementioned friend for a while but it definitely lacked what
we got out of conversation.
If you don't have time to talk now you can always let it go to
voice mail.
[/quote]
OK, I understand that you and your friend don't like having
conversations by texting, don't feel that you can convey tone
that way, and don't like text-speak. Fair enough. But the
statement in the OP that started all this wasn't asking you to
have a conversation by text instead of phone. It was asking you
to text before calling, which implies that calling is on the
table as a communication method. How much "tone" is needed to
say "I'd like to catch up with you. Do you have time for a phone
call?" or "Can I call you about [topic]? It'll probably take
about 5 minutes" with someone you know is a texter?
Also, not being able to convey and/or read tone in texts or to
have real-time conversation in text when you yourself avoid
communicating in that format doesn't mean that either is
impossible--it just means it's a style of communication (a
dialect, in some ways) that isn't familiar to you. Aside from
the examples of regional dialects and slang, there are plenty of
specialized writing styles that are confusing to someone
unfamiliar with them but very effective for the users: e.g.,
technical writing--if you dive into a technical article in a
field you're not familiar with, you're probably going to have to
slog through a bunch of jargon that seems confusing and
gratuitous, but that wording may be crystal clear and precise to
someone immersed in the field, and in fact far clearer than
trying to write out the same thing in "normal" English. People
can learn multiple styles just fine: plenty of people who are
comfortable texting or trading memes back and forth on Tumblr
can also communicate well orally, write technical content or
formal essays in the appropriate styles, and/or do creative
writing in yet another style (possibly in more than one
language). You don't need to learn the texting "dialect" if you
prefer to stick to other forms of communication, but trashing it
as a "major communication breakdown" is unfair to those who
do--it would be like me claiming that the author of a psychology
article is incapable of having a conversation because the
technical jargon would be inappropriate for chatting at a
cocktail party or that nobody can effectively communicate in
Braille because I would have to painstakingly translate it
letter by letter to understand it.
#Post#: 28419--------------------------------------------------
Re: "Too Intrusive" or Something Else?
By: Venus193 Date: March 26, 2019, 7:20 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I probably didn't make this clear, but that conversation was a
looooooooooong time ago. Now I'mm sure that a breach of promise
suit would get laughed out of court.
#Post#: 28424--------------------------------------------------
Re: "Too Intrusive" or Something Else?
By: hovlane Date: March 26, 2019, 8:35 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
"Autocorrect might end human communication by turning all
sensible sentences into gibberish, but that's another matter."
Off topic briefly, but I've yet to understand what the objection
is to auto correct. If one proofreads their texts this won't
happen.
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