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       #Post#: 27989--------------------------------------------------
       Panhandlers
   DIR By: Contrarian
       Date: March 21, 2019, 11:53 am
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       I wish I could just do a vote on this one. I don’t want to get
       bogged down with too many theories, so maybe, should anyone
       respond, posters can pick the choice closest to their theory,
       eg: Choice 1) or Choice 2) and then follow that with any
       information you think important.
       Choice 1) give money, food or clothing to panhandlers.
       Choice 2) don’t give money to panhandlers.
       If you only give some change once in a blue moon if the mood
       takes you, you fall in to the first choice because you’re not
       against giving them something.
       My very basic curiosity is the theory some have that charity in
       general keeps the poor poor, where as a change in social
       structure of government will eliminate poverty to a livable
       extent.
       It’s a complicated theory, I’ve listened to plenty of arguments
       on either side and I don’t have an opinion because I don’t fully
       understand the greater effects of it all. And I do donate to
       some charities and I don’t feel comfortable withdrawing my
       donations based on this theory.
       I’ve narrowed it down to panhandling as a way to have clear
       responses to one shared example. (And yes, this is because I
       read Sense and Sensibility this morning)
       #Post#: 27991--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Panhandlers
   DIR By: STiG
       Date: March 21, 2019, 12:21 pm
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       I guess I'm Choice 1, though I won't ever give a panhandler
       money.  I will donate to charities that help the homeless
       because, frankly, if we waited for the government to step up,
       we'd all be long gone.  I have given panhandler's food - usually
       someone I see regularly and know they aren't going to throw it
       back in my face.
       #Post#: 27992--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Panhandlers
   DIR By: Amara
       Date: March 21, 2019, 12:34 pm
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       Not only do I not give money or food or anything at all to
       panhandlers, I will not donate anything to charities that
       support or help them.
       It's not because I am mean but because I firmly believe in
       helping only those who help themselves like all the workers who
       work minimum wage jobs because they need the money, are willing
       to work to get it instead of beg for it, and don't (hopefully
       yet) have the skills to get better paying jobs. Therefore, I
       support the food bank and other agencies that help low-income
       people rather than no-income people.
       My town has plenty of homeless who find the weather conducive to
       their "lifestyle" and tourists a rather soft touch. However, the
       resentment of the locals is growing and now many avoid our
       formerly lovely downtown for the urine and fecal smells and the
       aggressiveness of the homeless. The cowardly city council does
       nothing, the police do what they can (though that is limited),
       and the hate and divide keeps on growing.
       One of my dad's favorite phrases was "pulling yourself up by
       your own bootstraps." Alas, my sister never learned that, never
       learned the challenge and pleasure of work, still at age 67
       expects to be taken care of. The homeless are just as bad. I
       don't want to get into "well, that one has mental illness and
       the other one is just homeless out of choice." To me, it doesn't
       matter. No money, no help whatsoever.
       #Post#: 27993--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Panhandlers
   DIR By: Kiwipinball
       Date: March 21, 2019, 12:37 pm
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       I think 2. I don't give directly to panhandlers. I do donate to
       charities, some of which help homeless people. I would prefer to
       donate to a food bank, for example, because they can stretch the
       money/donation further than one individual can. Plus, as a
       woman, I don't necessarily want to be digging out money in a lot
       of the areas where panhandlers are more common. I wouldn't feel
       safe doing that.
       #Post#: 27994--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Panhandlers
   DIR By: Jem
       Date: March 21, 2019, 12:40 pm
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       I believe in being charitable, but I don't give panhandlers
       money. There is a difference between people who need a helping
       hand and people who beg as their occupation. I am all about
       helping people to get back on their own feet, or helping people
       who are disabled or physically incapable of supporting
       themselves. But then there are the people who simply don't feel
       like putting in the work to have the life they think they should
       lead, and expect others to subsidize them because they
       themselves are too lazy. That makes me just livid.
       I also think that some people are very bad with money, for
       whatever reasons. I would not give money to a person who I think
       would use it for alcohol or drugs. I would give them clothing,
       or food, or pay an electric bill directly to the company, for
       example, but I would not give cash to someone who would use it
       for cigarettes or getting their nails done or some other
       non-necessity.
       #Post#: 27995--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Panhandlers
   DIR By: LurkingGurl
       Date: March 21, 2019, 12:46 pm
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       #2
       Most panhandlers are just con artists.  There are truly needy
       people and they are not in a position to get themselves to the
       center of town or to the freeway exit.  More likely they are
       working a low paying job and have enormous debt due to unforseen
       circumstances, or have made bad life decisions that they are now
       carrying the burden of.
       It's a conceit to look at "poor people" as a monolith.  They're
       not all the same.  There are even poor people who prey on other
       poor people!
       And it's not compassion that makes us want to give them money,
       it's our own sense of wanting to someone's hero.  And that's a
       relatively cheap thrill.  It's a better idea to choose charities
       and give them ongoing support.  That will make a much more
       positive difference in the world.
       #Post#: 27997--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Panhandlers
   DIR By: Jem
       Date: March 21, 2019, 1:00 pm
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       Just one story that made me livid....
       In my area (which can get well below zero in the winter) there
       were a couple homeless camps that grew quite large as we headed
       into fall. These people demanded that the city provide them with
       permanent housing. Obviously, this was a logistical nightmare in
       addition to a policy nightmare, but attempts were made to get
       people at least into shelters of some sort before the
       temperatures made it dangerous to be homeless. I read an
       interview of one woman in her 50s who complained that the city
       was not doing enough for her and was trying to break up her
       family. What was she so upset about? The city was not able to
       find a living space that would accommodate her entire extended
       family comprised of something like six able-bodied adults who
       refused to have jobs, along with their various children. "I
       shouldn't have to spend my days apart from my kids and
       grandkids." The ungrateful entitledness made me just LIVID. I
       mean, I spend five days a week "apart from my kid and husband"
       because my kid is in school and MY HUSBAND AND I ARE AT WORK.
       Why should the city pay for this woman and her entire family to
       not do anything to support themselves?!?!!?!?!?!?!!!!!!!!!!!!
       In that same article other people were refusing to go to the
       housing offered to them because they did not want to follow the
       rules, including no illegal drugs. They felt they were entitled
       to do whatever they wanted to do and someone else should pay for
       it.
       #Post#: 28001--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Panhandlers
   DIR By: Two Ravens
       Date: March 21, 2019, 1:55 pm
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       There is a panhandler in my tourist trap town who is not only
       not homeless or a veteran as he claims, but he fleeces the
       tourists to finance his winters in Florida.  Thanks to him, I
       will never give any money to panhandlers.
       #Post#: 28004--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Panhandlers
   DIR By: baritone108
       Date: March 21, 2019, 2:15 pm
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       Choice 1.
       #Post#: 28015--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Panhandlers
   DIR By: Tea Drinker
       Date: March 21, 2019, 3:59 pm
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       I have seen this phrased as "a charitable society is an unjust
       society"--the point isn't that giving to charity is wrong, it's
       that a better, more just society would take care of people in
       ways that didn't require charitable donations, and the
       combination of good luck and good self-promotion that helps some
       people get more charity than others. Thinking in broad
       categories (rather than whether to give money to Joe Schmoe):
       Americans sometimes run gofundme campaigns to pay for medical
       care that would be covered by taxes in other countries; American
       parents can send their children to public school for free, and
       children in some countries have to pay school fees.
       Whether or not you agree that charity is the right way to handle
       that need, paying or not paying for one person's insulin or one
       child's school fees won't change the system. You can donate to a
       food pantry and  lobby your Congressmember to change the rules
       on SNAP benefits, or do only one of those things, or do neither.
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