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#Post#: 27458--------------------------------------------------
Re: New bakery dilemma - should I have said something
DIR By: kglory
Date: March 10, 2019, 3:45 pm
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--- Quote from: Rose Red link ---
>
> [quote author=kglory link=topic=1035.msg27453#msg27453
date=1552248232]
> I would never have said anything. Unless you were going to
make a complaint before they asked because it was so inedible,
it feels somehow rude or violating social norms to reply to "Did
you like it?" from a stranger with "No."
>
> Then again I tend towards the people-pleasing side so I would
never want to insult new business owners like this, especially
people I don't even know.
>
> For those who would feel compelled to answer honestly to help
the business, the only way I could see doing it is burying one
small negative among some good things. Like, "It was good, and
the cake had a good flavor. The icing was a little sweet for my
taste. I do love having a new bakery in our downtown."
>
> Voila, not offended anyone, said a lot of nice things so they
won't feel attacked, but like any person, they will hone in one
the criticism and maybe address that one thing.
>
--- End Quote ---
But this is a business interaction and not social. The OP
shouldn't say it sucks, but she can say it was a bit dry and the
frosting was too sweet for her taste. She can say it in a nice
tone. Feedback doesn't have to mean complaint.
A new business is the perfect time for feedback so they can
change and improve if they wish. They want repeat business; not
customers who are too polite to say anything and just never come
back.
[/quote]
She absolutely could, and it wouldn't make her a bad person or
anything. I'm just saying I personally wouldn't. Unless (and
this is a stretch imagining myself doing) but unless I paired it
with some kind of compliment - X was good, but Y could use less
sugar.
Even in terms of how to react - I'm also in a (very different)
profession involving direct customer feedback, in a way,
anonymous surveys, and when it's nothing but negative, it's easy
to think "wow this person had horrible expectations!" or "how
rude are they" or etc. But if they say some thoughtful things
but mention one or two problematic things they would have liked
differently, I'm more likely to take that into account. I think
most people are like this in how they respond to criticism.
#Post#: 27468--------------------------------------------------
Re: New bakery dilemma - should I have said something
DIR By: Irked Purist
Date: March 11, 2019, 7:03 am
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It's not an 'insult', whether you're a people-pleaser or not.
Not everyone responds well to the 'compliment sandwich'
technique. Some skip right over the criticism because they only
hear the compliements; others interpret it as manipulative.
Saying anything about the cake being good or having a nice
flavour would be verging on a lie. It's unecessary to have to
come up with false praise just so your valid criticism isn't
read as an 'attack'.
Admittedly I have serious problems with the 'I hated it, but I
was too polite to say anything' approach.
#Post#: 27469--------------------------------------------------
Re: New bakery dilemma - should I have said something
DIR By: Kimberami
Date: March 11, 2019, 8:07 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Aleko link ---
>
> [quote]If I were a diligent employee, I would have taken the
fact that the customer threw away a significant portion of the
product as a sign that it wasn't very good. The customer might
not have eaten it all in one sitting, but most customers would
have taken a tasty (pricey) treat with them for later.
--- End Quote ---
Indeed - and that may well have been the precise reason why they
asked.
[/quote]
OP's action already told the answer. Just like when plates are
returned to the kitchen with specific items untouched. Alert
owners shouldn't have to ask patrons how the food was. They can
see with their own eyes that food has been enjoyed. Half a
cupcake thrown away is a clear indication that it isn't any
good. If the customer isn't willing to offer a critique on their
own, then you aren't likely to get a true answer to the
questions "How was it?" or "Did you like it?" The customer will
just offer a polite fiction and never come back. A better
question would be "I see that the cupcake wasn't to your liking.
How could we improve?"
#Post#: 27471--------------------------------------------------
Re: New bakery dilemma - should I have said something
DIR By: Jem
Date: March 11, 2019, 9:27 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Kimpossible link ---
>
> Half a cupcake thrown away is a clear indication that it isn't
any good.
--- End Quote ---
I don't know this is entirely accurate. Some cupcakes are giant,
and a person truly only wants half the cupcake. Some people are
tracking their macros and have decided they wish to indulge in a
few bites of a delicious cupcake, but not throw their
nutritional planning out of whack by eating the entire thing.
At certain restaurants I think the same can be true. Some places
provide entrees that are easily 2-4 times the recommended
serving amount. If a person only eats a portion of what is
served, it COULD mean that they didn't like it.....but it could
also mean they enjoyed it but only wanted the amount they
decided to eat.
#Post#: 27472--------------------------------------------------
Re: New bakery dilemma - should I have said something
DIR By: lowspark
Date: March 11, 2019, 9:29 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Kimpossible link ---
>
> A better question would be "I see that the cupcake wasn't to
your liking. How could we improve?"
>
--- End Quote ---
I would not really like to be asked that question. It puts me
even more on the spot! We often say here that it's not polite to
observe what food your guests are eating or not eating, nor to
comment on that.
I think it's fine for a staff member of a restaurant to silently
take note of what is not getting eaten for their own research
and edification, but I don't think it's ok for them to make a
customer uncomfortable by asking about it or really
acknowledging it in any way. It's sort of a "you didn't finish
your vegetables" comment.
Again, I think if the café needs feedback, particularly in their
early days, they should ask customers in a non-intrusive way
which allows them to answer in a relatively anonymous way if
they choose to. A comment card for example, which, in the case
of a customer not eating most of their food, can be presented
as, "We'd love to have your feedback if you don't mind filling
out this card and dropping it in the box."
I get that posting negative comments on line can discourage
others from going. But the other choices are to tell them to
their face, which as noted, can be very uncomfortable, or
staying silent. Negative comments on line can be responded to by
the business owner at least, with a polite response and maybe an
offer for a discount on the next visit.
But if the only avenue for feedback is the workers querying a
customer whom they happen to observe throwing out a large
portion of the food, they won't really know what issues they
have. The cook/baker needs to know not only that the cupcakes
aren't being well received, but why.
#Post#: 27486--------------------------------------------------
Re: New bakery dilemma - should I have said something
DIR By: DaDancingPsych
Date: March 11, 2019, 11:31 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Mrs. Tilney link ---
>
> I think if you want to be helpful and encourage the bakery to
succeed, you shouldn't leave a negative Yelp review; I doubt it
would lead to the baker changing anything, and would keep
customers away. At this point, I probably wouldn't say or do
anything.
>
--- End Quote ---
I agree. Negative Yelp reviews are for when the service was so
awful that no one should have to endure! Although, I try to read
"through" reviews, as it is often obvious that the
product/service was not "bad", it just wasn't want that person
was looking for.
#Post#: 27492--------------------------------------------------
Re: New bakery dilemma - should I have said something
DIR By: betty
Date: March 11, 2019, 12:18 pm
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Yes, say something, in person to the manager or owner if they
are available.
We recently ordered pizza (via the shop's website, so they had
our email address). It was good, but didn't have the extra sauce
we requested. When we got an email request to leave a review,
instead we called and spoke to the manager (who apologized and
offered a gift card for a free pizza). If the management doesn't
know something is wrong, they can't fix anything.
#Post#: 27494--------------------------------------------------
Re: New bakery dilemma - should I have said something
DIR By: Contrarian
Date: March 11, 2019, 12:31 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I’m struggling a bit with this because I review restaurants and
bakeries and the like for a living. I was in the food industry
for years and am very critical of service and food prep and
presentation. Mostly because it’s nowhere near as difficult as
some may suggest.
It’s a lot of work and a lot of hours to own or manage a place
that sells good food and offers good service but the individual
tasks are simple.
I ran across quite a few chef’s and cooks who were enemies with
the health inspectors. There is no reason for it, cleaning and
upkeep and proper food storage and handling is a lot of labour
but it’s not difficult to understand or pull off and everyone
wins when it’s right.
The restaurateurs that get pissed off when a health inspector
points out a crack in the wall (potential for pest control
issues) are being for too egotistical, they should be thanking
the inspector for pointing it out.
Ditto critics of the food or service. Cupcakes should not be
dry, they should have a slight bit of moistness, not necessarily
detectable, and some spring. A brand new bakery upon opening
has absolutely no excuse for poor storage or a bad batch. They
would have tasted their batch to ensure quality.
Poor storage? What time did they bake theses cupcakes? The
business is a bakery, the cupcakes wod have been baked within an
1.5 hours before putting them on sale and only available up to
four hours after their preparation. There is something seriously
wrong here. Some half assed attempt at this. Either someone who
thins themselves great at business and figures cupcakes are
trendy now I’ll do this, and hasn’t bothered to hire an actual
baker (the business side of people never want to pay talent what
they’re worth) or someone that already owns two or three of
these has over expanded and put this shop into the hands of a
careless manager.
All of this goes to say, yes, tell them the cupcake is dry and
the icing is too sweet for your taste. And if your comments are
received badly, never return.
If you are thanked, apologized to, and given some sort of
invitation to try again, than it’s your choice to accept or not.
For those of you too shy or nervous to give a critique when
asked, I’m not sure what the point is of stating that. I assume
that goes in almost every situation you’re in. The shy,
non-social, introverts and people pleasers generally will shy
away from any interaction that will prolong engagement so the
fact that it’s a business instead of social doesn’t really
change things does it.
Although, in their defense, I’m an introvert, I don’t shy away
from confrontation or unpleasant situations but I do tend to
spend very little time with others in the first place.
#Post#: 27529--------------------------------------------------
Re: New bakery dilemma - should I have said something
DIR By: TootsNYC
Date: March 11, 2019, 7:39 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: kglory link ---
>
> I would never have said anything. Unless you were going to
make a complaint before they asked because it was so inedible,
it feels somehow rude or violating social norms to reply to "Did
you like it?" from a stranger with "No."
>
> Then again I tend towards the people-pleasing side so I would
never want to insult new business owners like this, especially
people I don't even know.
>
> For those who would feel compelled to answer honestly to help
the business, the only way I could see doing it is burying one
small negative among some good things. Like, "It was good, and
the cake had a good flavor. The icing was a little sweet for my
taste. I do love having a new bakery in our downtown."
>
> Voila, not offended anyone, said a lot of nice things so they
won't feel attacked, but like any person, they will hone in one
the criticism and maybe address that one thing.
>
--- End Quote ---
But...this is business, not social.
You don't need to--in fact you shouldn't--follow the same rules
in both places.
#Post#: 27545--------------------------------------------------
Re: New bakery dilemma - should I have said something
DIR By: gramma dishes
Date: March 12, 2019, 9:02 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Jem link ---
>
> [quote author=Kimpossible link=topic=1035.msg27469#msg27469
date=1552309658]
> Half a cupcake thrown away is a clear indication that it isn't
any good.
--- End Quote ---
I don't know this is entirely accurate. Some cupcakes are giant,
and a person truly only wants half the cupcake. Some people are
tracking their macros and have decided they wish to indulge in a
few bites of a delicious cupcake, but not throw their
nutritional planning out of whack by eating the entire thing.
At certain restaurants I think the same can be true. Some places
provide entrees that are easily 2-4 times the recommended
serving amount. If a person only eats a portion of what is
served, it COULD mean that they didn't like it.....but it could
also mean they enjoyed it but only wanted the amount they
decided to eat.
[/quote]
A cupcake is easily carried out. If you loved the cupcake you
might have asked for a bag to take the rest home with you.
Throwing it out is a pretty sure indication you didn't like it.
Restaurant food is the same except that if you're on your lunch
break and have no way to refrigerate your uneaten portion, you
may have to reluctantly leave it. But lots of people do take
restaurant leftovers home, especially if they are going there
immediately. I most certainly do! ;)
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