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       #Post#: 27231--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Owe any more money? 
   DIR By: Bales
       Date: March 5, 2019, 6:51 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       In my opinion, even if Katie never mentioned she was a light
       sleeper, she still doesn't owe any additional funds. (On a side
       note, though, I am impressed they agreed with a 1/3 split rather
       than 1/2, so it does sound like the initial arrangements were
       fair - or even more than fair to OP.)
       To me, this is information that should have been relayed when
       making plans because even a regular sleeper is likely to be
       bothered by heavy snoring.  And OP handled it very graciously by
       getting her own room.  This is new information about Katie and
       may inform Bella on how close (or not) she wants to be going
       forward.
       I love NFPwife's wording as a response - including the
       additional bit.  It's perfect.
       #Post#: 27232--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Owe any more money? 
   DIR By: Isisnin
       Date: March 5, 2019, 6:55 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Actually, the case can be made that Katie and Keith owe Bella
       for 2/3 of the hotel room she got.
       They agreed to split expenses, and specifically lodging, Katie
       and Keith chose to not disclose significant information
       impacting the lodging causing the need for the second hotel
       room.
       So Bella owes them for 1/3 and they owe her 2/3.
       But if Bella chooses not to ask for this money, I still don't
       think that she owes them. And if it looks like Katie will not
       stay friends unless she gets the money from Bella, well Katie is
       not much of a friend anyways.
       #Post#: 27236--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Owe any more money? 
   DIR By: STiG
       Date: March 5, 2019, 7:32 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: lakey link ---
       >
       > STiG,
       > Do the earplugs work, and if so, where can you buy them? I
       shared a hotel room with my sister for one night, and it was
       horrible. I've never known anyone could snore that loudly. The
       thing is, other than that, I wouldn't mind traveling with her.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       They work for me.  I get the conical, silicone type ones at the
       drug store.  They are supposed to be single use but I use them
       for a while, washing them every few days, until they don't block
       enough noise anymore.  Usually, the first week with right fresh
       ones, I can't hear my husband snore.  As they get used a little
       more, I will hear him but it is muffled enough that I can sleep.
       He isn't that bad a snorer, though.
       I run them between my palms to shrink them down then put them in
       my ears, being careful not to bend it at all.  Then I hold it in
       there for a few seconds until it expands to fit my ear canal.  I
       find that if my hands are slightly damp, they go in really
       easily and tend to seal up well.  If it is at all uncomfortable,
       I remove them and try again.
       #Post#: 27247--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Owe any more money? 
   DIR By: Dr. F.
       Date: March 5, 2019, 10:26 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: STiG link ---
       >
       > [quote author=lakey link=topic=1031.msg27217#msg27217
       date=1551818921]
       > STiG,
       > Do the earplugs work, and if so, where can you buy them? I
       shared a hotel room with my sister for one night, and it was
       horrible. I've never known anyone could snore that loudly. The
       thing is, other than that, I wouldn't mind traveling with her.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       They work for me.  I get the conical, silicone type ones at the
       drug store.  They are supposed to be single use but I use them
       for a while, washing them every few days, until they don't block
       enough noise anymore.  Usually, the first week with right fresh
       ones, I can't hear my husband snore.  As they get used a little
       more, I will hear him but it is muffled enough that I can sleep.
       He isn't that bad a snorer, though.
       I run them between my palms to shrink them down then put them in
       my ears, being careful not to bend it at all.  Then I hold it in
       there for a few seconds until it expands to fit my ear canal.  I
       find that if my hands are slightly damp, they go in really
       easily and tend to seal up well.  If it is at all uncomfortable,
       I remove them and try again.
       [/quote]
       My problem, and I've been advised towards earplugs all my life,
       is that my ear canals appear to be smaller than usual. I can't
       wear any earplugs I've found without pain, which means I can
       either not sleep from noise, or not sleep from discomfort.
       Thus, the suggestion for ear plus always comes across as
       completely dismissive to me - that may or may not be fair, but
       is my gut-level reaction.
       I'm firmly on team Bella. She doesn't owe anything, since she
       had to get her own room, and thus had to pay far more than
       expected on her own.
       #Post#: 27256--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Owe any more money? 
   DIR By: Aleko
       Date: March 6, 2019, 2:15 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I'm with everybody else here: Keith's being "the worst snorer
       ever" who routinely makes a racket that one has to "learn to
       sleep through" was material information that Katie should have
       volunteered as soon as the arrangement was suggested, even if
       Bella hadn't on her part volunteered the material information
       that she is a very light sleeper. It is 100% Katie's fault that
       Bella found herself having unexpectedly to bear the cost of a
       separate room.
       But, as Contrarian says, this arrangement was crazy anyway. If
       money was tight I'd share a hotel room with a couple of old
       friends for a night, sure - but for five nights? With a
       relatively-recent friend and her DH who she knows even less
       well? Even without snoring, that was never going to end well.
       It's an old saw that going on holiday together can wreck a
       friendship, as spending a week together shows up
       incompatibilities that you'd never otherwise have uncovered. And
       that's without sharing sleeping space with them!
       Why this cheese-paring arrangement anyway? They can afford to
       hire a truck for five days, and buy enough antiques to fill it,
       but apparently they can't afford a second hotel room? Unless,
       Katie and Bella are separately or jointly in the antiques
       business and this was supposed to be a profit-making trip, I
       just don't get it.
       #Post#: 27258--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Owe any more money? 
   DIR By: Dazi
       Date: March 6, 2019, 4:34 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I'd say no, no money at all owed, not even for the first night.
       Snoring that bad should have be disclosed up front.
       I'm also with Dr. F on the earplugs. I hate when I get told to
       just wear earplugs. I have very small ear canals and they don't
       fit. They really make my ears hurt.
       #Post#: 27259--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Owe any more money? 
   DIR By: STiG
       Date: March 6, 2019, 6:59 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I don't tell anybody to wear earplugs; I just let them know that
       I snore so they can decide for themselves what they'd like to
       do.
       #Post#: 27272--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Owe any more money? 
   DIR By: Hmmm
       Date: March 6, 2019, 10:20 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I agree that no more money is owed. Expecting her to not only
       pay for her own room but a third of theirs is unreasonable. I
       would send one additional text saying that she would not be
       paying for a room that was uninhabitable for her. And then I
       would not respond to anymore texts. It's also good that she
       found out about Bella's personality now and not after she was
       more invested in the relationship.
       I will not judge them on deciding to share a room. Some people
       are just more used to sharing accomodations, especially if your
       only going to be in the room for sleeping and dressing and then
       out for the rest of the day. But you should share any info with
       others that could impact their ability to sleep. For example, if
       you snore very loudly or if you use a white noise machine or
       want the heat set at 78 degrees. Most people will know if they
       have an oddity that would not make them a suitable roommate.
       #Post#: 27274--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Owe any more money? 
   DIR By: lowspark
       Date: March 6, 2019, 10:37 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I think it's a consensus that Bella owes no more money and that
       she should have been warned. And I agree that this friendship is
       doomed. I get that Katie is unhappy that she's stuck with the
       hotel cost for the four nights, but that's life. She can either
       get over it and rekindle the friendship or Bella should just
       chalk this up to experience, block Katie if the texts persist,
       and move on.
       A similar thing happened to me many years ago. My then husband
       and I took a trip with another couple. The first night, we
       shared a hotel room and I woke up from a dream that someone was
       moving furniture around to realize that the noise of the
       furniture being dragged across the floor was, in actuality, the
       husband of the other couple snoring.
       That was the only night we shared a room, as we were traveling
       to other locations and the accommodations were separate for the
       rest of the trip. But yeah, it would have been nice to have been
       warned!
       I later married an extreme snorer. I did get used to it. He went
       through multiple sleep studies and tried the CPAP machine a few
       times, even with a guy who said he'd NEVER failed to get a
       patient acclimated. Well, yeah. I guess hubby was his first
       failure.  ::)
       #Post#: 27286--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Owe any more money? 
   DIR By: TootsNYC
       Date: March 6, 2019, 12:30 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Aleko link ---
       >
       >
       > Why this cheese-paring arrangement anyway? They can afford to
       hire a truck for five days, and buy enough antiques to fill it,
       but apparently they can't afford a second hotel room? Unless,
       Katie and Bella are separately or jointly in the antiques
       business and this was supposed to be a profit-making trip, I
       just don't get it.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       That's what I wondered!
       I mean, I've squeezed in some areas to maximize spending in
       other, more important ones (I ordered new glasses, and I
       wouldn't spend more than $200 on the frames, because I knew I
       wanted Varilux progressives, and they are $180 more than the
       others).
       --- Quote ---
       > I think it's a consensus that Bella owes no more money and
       that she should have been warned. And I agree that this
       friendship is doomed. I get that Katie is unhappy that she's
       stuck with the hotel cost for the four nights, but that's life.
       She can either get over it and rekindle the friendship or Bella
       should just chalk this up to experience, block Katie if the
       texts persist, and move on.
       --- End Quote ---
       And maybe Bella can point out that SHE is unhappy at having to
       pay ALL the costs of the second hotel room without any warning.
       I suppose if Bella wanted to salvage this, she could try to
       point out:
       What would they all have spent if Katie had said from the
       get-go, "My husband snores pretty badly"?
       Bella would have said, "Oh, I'll get my own room then."
       Perhaps K&K would have ended up getting a room with only one
       bed, and it would have been cheaper than the two-bed room they
       did get. (though I've been to lots of hotels that only have
       two-bed rooms; they don't have any one-bed rooms, because they
       don't get so many requests for them)
       And instead, now both people spent more money than they
       originally planned (because Bella paid the full price for the
       room she did get).
       This is a direct result of Katie's not being thoughtful about
       her answer to the "I'm a light sleeper" query. She didn't think
       her answer through, and this is the price she is paying. She is
       paying [price difference from 1bed to 2bed] x 5 more than she
       would have paid if she'd been thorough.
       (I do think Bella should pay 1/3 of the first night's lodging.)
       Did Katie ever apologize for not remembering the snoring?
       And let this be a reminder to all, but especially Bella: Ask
       specifically about snoring.
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