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#Post#: 26560--------------------------------------------------
Re: When a family member is appalled by you nursing publicly
By: Bada Date: February 21, 2019, 10:37 am
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It's definitely normal to have other relatives attend the Mommy
and Me class; my husband goes (and participates) frequently as
do other husbands and other kids have brought aunts and grandmas
and grandpas to either watch or participate. For the sake of
anonymity here I haven't fully described the class, but I
guarantee that bringing grandma and grandpa would be totally
normal. HOWEVER, *they* don't know that and don't need to know
that. So if they're not invited, it probably won't strike them
as odd, which is a good thing for this situation.
As for the speculation that SM is uncomfortable about Son's age
rather than nursing publicly as a whole: While I appreciated
posters raising this an issue, and, like I said earlier, maybe
that's part of what underlies it which would explain why she
backtracked on her initial position. The thing is, her lecture
(the part she was able to get out) greatly revolved around the
absolute horribleness of the male waiter having to see any part
of my breast while he's simply trying to do his job, etc, etc.
I pretty much ruined his life by putting him in a situation
where he was trying to do his job and he had to see me nursing
my son and I should be ashamed of myself. She was only telling
me this because "God laid it on her heart", etc, etc. I tried
to explain my actions--particularly that Son needed some extra
comfort because traveling was really stressful on him and he
wasn't his usual self and wasn't willing to eat like normal (he
literally lost 2 pounds on a 6 day trip because he wouldn't eat
what was available and wanted our usual foods from home)--and
she cut me off and told me again why I needed to be ashamed.
When I stood and said "I'm not having this conversation" she
*literally screamed at me* that I had to sit down and listen to
her because she is my mother. She then tried to lecture my
husband as well. And when I raised it on the phone later for
the purpose of telling her "my house, my rules," she took that
as an invitation to again tell me why it was horrible to place
the waiter in the situation I had.
All of this is to say that 1) she hasn't admitted to herself
that it's about Son's age, *if* the BM&B Commenters have
accurately guessed that's what's really underlying it and 2)
there's no way on earth that I will initiate a longer
conversation explaining to her how long I'm going to nurse and
why. I completely agree with Hanna's suggestion above that SM
has forfeited her right to an explanation by showing she can't
discuss this rationally (though I really love Grandma Dishes'
suggestion that I just tell her God whispered to me too!). The
funny thing is, when I posted this asking if I should give a
small explanation to SM or avoid the topic entirely (by moving
the class or just not inviting them), I thought I'd get people
telling me "cut her off, don't ever JADE with a crazy person".
Now Jem suggests I should lay out my logic entirely to her to
make SM feel better. Yeah, I'm not going to open this can of
worms with her.
Also, Jem, I'm sure you don't intend it this way, but when you
speak about me in the third person, it feels like you're talking
about me behind me back, like I'm happening to overhear someone
gossiping about me. Everyone else (with the rare exception)
treats this as a conversation *with* me, offering me advice and
tips (your posts in the third person stand out to me a little
more since they're in opposition to my choices, that's what
really makes it feel like I'm being talked about behind my back,
more so than when others do it). Maybe if you've never been the
OP yourself you don't realize how it comes across, but it is a
little off putting and I thought I'd share how it sounds from my
perspective to hear my situation described in the third person
all the time. Just my two cents, take it or leave it,
obviously.
#Post#: 26563--------------------------------------------------
Re: When a family member is appalled by you nursing publicly
By: Hanna Date: February 21, 2019, 10:54 am
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I think you just shared more with us here than we are owed.
That’s my main idea, actually. You are the Mom, you get to
decide how to best care for your child. The advice not to JADE
is perfect for posting on BM&B, also! No one here gets to decide
if your parenting style is appropriate.
This is hard actually because we all need people that can
“check” us. But someone that uses a phrase like “God laid it on
my heart.” Just No!! Don’t use God that way.
I actively decide who I trust to check my decisions and tell me
the truth.
#Post#: 26567--------------------------------------------------
Re: When a family member is appalled by you nursing publicly
By: Sycorax Date: February 21, 2019, 11:01 am
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If your stepmom is just going to scream at you and not see
reason, then definitely don't JADE and don't engage the crazy.
#Post#: 26572--------------------------------------------------
Re: When a family member is appalled by you nursing publicly
By: DaDancingPsych Date: February 21, 2019, 11:36 am
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I was one of the posters who suggested that visitors to a Mommy
& Me class may not be appropriate. You obviously know the norms
of your class, so ignore my previous concern. But I agree, your
SM does not know this, so I would just not invite her. Either
attend the earlier class or just attend the class and let SM
know when you will be returning.
I do not think that you need to justify or JADE your reasons.
Whether your SM or any of us Internet strangers agree or
disagree, is irrelevant. If SM seemed open to hearing your side,
I might suggest that conversation as a way to find a place where
you can both be happy, but SM has made it clear that her mind is
set. So no, I would not attempt to discuss my reasoning; I would
consider the conversation closed. The only things that I would
share would be situations where you know you will be
breastfeeding so that she can make an informed decision about
her participation. I would only offer that information to
hopefully avoid unwanted situations.
Her reason for objecting (whether it is the age of your son, the
fact that the waiter was male, or that it is God's wishes) is
really irrelevant to your question. I offered my speculation as
sometimes when we know where the other person is coming from it
can help. If I know someone's triggers and it makes sense to
avoid them, then I do. Unless you feel it helpful, I would not
spend much brain power trying to understand. Again, I am not
convinced that her mind will change.
I do hope that you find a course of action that works for you so
that you can move beyond this with SM and find a peaceful
relationship.
#Post#: 26575--------------------------------------------------
Re: When a family member is appalled by you nursing publicly
By: NFPwife Date: February 21, 2019, 11:42 am
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I've been following this with interest and I'm so glad you
mentioned the Pope's comments, Bada. Because they were the first
thing I thought of when I read your post. I, too, hate when
someone says, "God put it on my heart," and then tell me
something that is about them wanting me to change for them.
Also, at times the "message" is inconsistent with Church
teaching or the Gospels -so, selfishness masquerading as a
"message" in what seems like an attempt to manipulate me. (Two
times in my life, someone has said, "I feel compelled to tell
you this" or "God really wants me to say this to you" and both
times the messages were dead on and weren't something the
message carrier had knowledge of.)
Bada, if you get a chance, you might say to your MIL, "I'm not
sure that's from God, because it contradicts the Holy Father.
You might need to be sure where your messages are coming from."
I've seen nursing mothers in Mass and it didn't seem
inappropriate or out of place at all. Even when the kiddos were
toddlers. One time, the mother had a couple kiddos and was
nursing the youngest so we helped the older kids on with their
coats. We chatted a bit while we got the coats and accessories
on the small people. Again, no. big. deal. We know a lot of
ecological breastfeeding moms so the little ones come to
seminars and adult faith formation things and everyone is happy
to see the babies and moms.
#Post#: 26579--------------------------------------------------
Re: When a family member is appalled by you nursing publicly
By: Chez Miriam Date: February 21, 2019, 12:03 pm
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I think the fact that the mother and baby group is open to
people other than mothers is a bit of a red herring: surely it
is open to supportive people other than mothers, not just anyone
other than mothers, so your decision to not invite her to that
is a kindness to your fellow classmates, if she's going to be
judgmental/critical. I think the word judgmental is what I'm
looking for [I'm pretty sure Matthew 7:1 mentions something of
that sort].
One way of pushing back that I've learned is to offer less to
the person demanding more: 'oh, perhaps you should delay your
next visit until <child> is weaned; we wouldn't want to upset
you' - that puts consideration for her feelings over "my house,
my rules", but has the same result: not being criticised in your
own home for your family's parenting decisions.
Good luck and best wishes, whatever you decide.
#Post#: 26583--------------------------------------------------
Re: When a family member is appalled by you nursing publicly
By: Jem Date: February 21, 2019, 12:25 pm
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[quote author=Bada link=topic=1004.msg26560#msg26560
date=1550767079]
... Now Jem suggests I should lay out my logic entirely to her
to make SM feel better. Yeah, I'm not going to open this can of
worms with her.
Also, Jem, I'm sure you don't intend it this way, but when you
speak about me in the third person, it feels like you're talking
about me behind me back, like I'm happening to overhear someone
gossiping about me. Everyone else (with the rare exception)
treats this as a conversation *with* me, offering me advice and
tips (your posts in the third person stand out to me a little
more since they're in opposition to my choices, that's what
really makes it feel like I'm being talked about behind my back,
more so than when others do it). Maybe if you've never been the
OP yourself you don't realize how it comes across, but it is a
little off putting and I thought I'd share how it sounds from my
perspective to hear my situation described in the third person
all the time. Just my two cents, take it or leave it,
obviously.
[/quote]
If you read my posts, I have always said that you have the right
to do whatever you want and that you owe your SM nothing. My
comments about addressing this with your SM rather than simply
hoping the tension goes away were because you have repeatedly
said that you do not want to cut off contact with your father
and SM and that you want them to be a part of your son's life.
Since that is the case, despite the fact you owe your SM nothing
(as I think every post of mine has noted), it may sense to
discuss this with her to ease the tension and come to an
agreement. The point is not to make SM feel better, the point is
to resolve the tension for BOTH OP and the SM. Since you came
here for advice, that is the advice I have to give: It is not
that you OWE the SM anything. It is that if you are looking for
ways to improve the situation, talking to your SM is a better
approach than hoping this issue will resolve itself. I really
think it will get worse as your son gets older.
Again, to be clear: I gave my advice on the basis of your
assertion that you want your father and SM to be active in your
son's life.
I did not intend to come across as speaking behind your back,
OP. I was trying to make it clear who I was talking about since
there were some side discussions happening as well. There was no
offense intended.
For the record, I am not against breast feeding or breast
feeding in public. I nursed my DD for a year (exclusively for
three months, then began to gradually wean her over the course
of the next nine months).
#Post#: 26601--------------------------------------------------
Re: When a family member is appalled by you nursing publicly
By: Contrarian Date: February 21, 2019, 4:46 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Wow! What a convoluted conversation! There’s god and
breastfeeding beyond a certain age and dealing with the folks!
So your SM has a direct line to god does she? Well, isn’t she
special? God wanted her to discuss your breastfeeding with you,
but apparently the big guy speaking to you directly is out of
the question?
I dislike religion and I professionally argue against it, I
want to put that out there for the purposes of tone, but I want
to make it clear I’m not doing that here. I am, at this point,
respecting your beliefs.
If you, OP (is it Bada? I made a note of it but I can’t pull it
up while I’m posting, I apologize), attend church regularly and
follow all the rules and worship in the way you believe to be
the true way, than why the heck is god favouring this women with
instructions, and not speaking directly to you?
This is my biggest beef with this story. Another poster, who I
thing is religious, was also upset about this for other reasons,
but the end result is the same.
I take offence, (offend away though! I am a free speech
advocate) at anyone who claims to have a direct line to god, and
claims that that gives them the right to tell the rest of us to
behave. It is the most manipulative tool of religious authority.
Again, I’m not a believer, but if there was this particular god,
I have no doubt that breastfeeding would be pretty high on the
list of what he wants women to be doing.
I won’t go on about the oppression of women in religion, but
their roles as caregivers are near holy. Someone mentioned the
Pope, if we’re talking Catholic than one need not look further
than the sainthood of Mary, who followers are allowed and
encouraged to worship.
OP said SM is of a different religion, but I know of no religion
that doesn’t want women’s primary goals to be taking care of the
children and the home. Which is a full time job and a much
needed one by the way. My issue is when women want to chose a
different path and someone’s direct line to god tells them they
can’t.
I breastfed my youngest until the age of two but she ate solids,
regular foods during the day, I only breastfed at night, but
you’re doing what you’re doing. I have no direct line to god so
I can’t claim the authority to tell you what to do, OP.
But I can make a suggestion. Only a suggestion. The child
refusing to eat food they are not regularly fed at home, that
can be bothersome. Try to change up the menu at home a bit, make
it healthy, but diverse. And if they won’t eat what’s put before
them, they’ll have to wait for the next meal. They will gain
back that two pounds and learn that even if they don’t like the
food, if they stomach a portion of it, (was there no bread
anywhere? Bread is filling and universal) they’re going to be
hungry. That’s a ligitmate choice to make. Children’s
personalities surface sooner than you think. You may have a
light eater on your hands.
I agree the feeding seems to be more about comfort than food and
that’s something most kids start to learn around this age, their
comfort methods aren’t always going to be a available.
ETA: I am aware of bread allergies, that’s not the point.
#Post#: 26602--------------------------------------------------
Re: When a family member is appalled by you nursing publicly
By: Bada Date: February 21, 2019, 5:38 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Chez Miriam link=topic=1004.msg26579#msg26579
date=1550772199]
[snip]
One way of pushing back that I've learned is to offer less to
the person demanding more: 'oh, perhaps you should delay your
next visit until <child> is weaned; we wouldn't want to upset
you' - that puts consideration for her feelings over "my house,
my rules", but has the same result: not being criticised in your
own home for your family's parenting decisions.
Good luck and best wishes, whatever you decide.
[/quote]
I've been tempted to delay their visit. Work is so busy and
their visits are already tiring as it is. Dreading this issue
coming up is only making it worse. I think I am going to invite
them, but if it becomes a big thing, the next invite won't be
very soon. As it is we only see my parents a few times a year,
so I'll just delay and delay as necessary. I'm also only going
to let them stay for a short visit and only for the same days as
each other (usually SM stays longer than my dad).
[quote author=Jem link=topic=1004.msg26583#msg26583
date=1550773550]
[snip] Since you came here for advice, that is the advice I
have to give: It is not that you OWE the SM anything. It is that
if you are looking for ways to improve the situation, talking to
your SM is a better approach than hoping this issue will resolve
itself. I really think it will get worse as your son gets older.
Again, to be clear: I gave my advice on the basis of your
assertion that you want your father and SM to be active in your
son's life.
[snip]
[/quote]
SM has given no indication she will listen to me respectfully,
in fact, quite the opposite. I'm not going to open myself to
her rants. I do want a relationship, but not at the expense of
being shamed. Since I'm planning to cut my Son off long before
he's 10 ("Will the OP continue to breastfeed her son (in public
or otherwise) until he is 3? 5? 7? 10? (Robin and Lysa
Arryn!?!)"), this isn't going to be a super long term problem,
even worst case scenario.
She has a history of these blowups and then pretending they
never happened. I'm hoping that she'll stay that course and, as
long as I refuse to engage in a discussion, she'll stay silent
about the issue. But I'm not going to let her yell at me.
[quote author=Contrarian link=topic=1004.msg26601#msg26601
date=1550789203]
Wow! What a convoluted conversation! There’s god and
breastfeeding beyond a certain age and dealing with the folks!
So your SM has a direct line to god does she? Well, isn’t she
special? God wanted her to discuss your breastfeeding with you,
but apparently the big guy speaking to you directly is out of
the question?
[snip]
But I can make a suggestion. Only a suggestion. The child
refusing to eat food they are not regularly fed at home, that
can be bothersome. Try to change up the menu at home a bit, make
it healthy, but diverse. And if they won’t eat what’s put before
them, they’ll have to wait for the next meal. They will gain
back that two pounds and learn that even if they don’t like the
food, if they stomach a portion of it, (was there no bread
anywhere? Bread is filling and universal) they’re going to be
hungry. That’s a ligitmate choice to make. Children’s
personalities surface sooner than you think. You may have a
light eater on your hands.
I agree the feeding seems to be more about comfort than food and
that’s something most kids start to learn around this age, their
comfort methods aren’t always going to be a available.
[/quote]
Glad to provide a complicated issue for discussion, lol.
Yes, it's funny that God didn't give me the message directly.
And in regard to NFPWife's comments as well: My SM is not
Catholic, so some of this probably comes across to her
differently than it does to me. The Pope giving me "permission"
to do something doesn't have as much weight for her as it does
for me. Shrug.
As for eating on vacation: Kid's menus have a lot of chicken
fingers, pizza, and grilled cheese. There's only so much of
those greasy things Son would eat. And there's only so much
food he was willing to eat off of my plate. I don't think he
was just being picky, I think traveling was really stressful on
him and he would have been happier having things he was used to
eating (which are healthier/different than a lot of restaurant
options--though he'd live off plain cheese if we let him, but
you can't exactly order that at a restaurant!).
#Post#: 26609--------------------------------------------------
Re: When a family member is appalled by you nursing publicly
By: Hanna Date: February 21, 2019, 7:28 pm
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Maybe you should just tell her, “God laid this child to feed on
my heart!”
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