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DIR Return to: 2015 Errata Discussion
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#Post#: 372--------------------------------------------------
Re: No Black Book Characters
By: whitepaws Date: April 1, 2015, 9:38 am
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Yeah Silver ****s a shifters day up just like Iron for a
changeling. They can't heal it and the silver damage follows to
the next game. The healing is a count for 1 point of health and
for 10 CP it isn't really all that broken. And yes they do get a
lot of cool stuff but most of them they have to pay for and
quite a bit of it has a level requirement. They get a rough
drawback and cost nearly a whole level worth of CP to play.
Really they are only as powerful as you are willing to pay for
and at the end of the day all that stuff takes away from combat
or magic skills you could have. Just to have what Austin has
with the shifter with healing is nearly two levels worth of xp
and I can end his day with a handful of Crit Strikes. It's not
like it is unknown he's a shifter. I could see adjusting the
cost maybe but the race is only as broken as you want to see it.
Second if its anything like the Cursed shifters from Westmark
the current shifters we have are on par because they still have
to pay for their stuff while Cursed shifters get immune to
normal for free and regeneration for free. Not that anyone would
play one because the are basically a plot device but in all
reality Curse shifters aren't push overs either in fact they are
much more op.
#Post#: 374--------------------------------------------------
Re: No Black Book Characters
By: hjordanr Date: April 1, 2015, 10:22 am
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The cursed shifters don't get immune to normal at all, let alone
for free. Also, by DnD rules (at least in 3.5) they don't have
fast healing at all. I think we've been running the healing
wrong this entire time because the rules set that you and Chris
developed and that we're working with glosses over the count and
doesn't have a number attached to the count at all. Having
brought up the count issue, plot will need to assign a number to
the count that feels relatively balanced and we can run it that
way for the next few games before errata so that we can see how
that stacks up to the way it's been run so far. What kind of
count was the healing supposed to be when you were drafting the
rules, Sean?
#Post#: 387--------------------------------------------------
Re: No Black Book Characters
By: Zaud Date: April 1, 2015, 1:03 pm
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Having looked at the rules for Shifters/Vampires I will say
this: I'll trust Heath to put it into a balanced frame. The
'count' being a nebulous number is the tip of the ice burg on
issues, the other big one was 8 CP gets you a ton of things for
free (once you get to third level) and I look forward to seeing
how Heath assigns point values to the various things. I missed
entirely any susceptibility too Silver and it's effects.
I always hold to the 'slogan' "How does it add to the game" and
with the number of World of Darkness games around, I'm not sure
this stuff is 'needed' for the beginning part of a game. As
rewards for 'good' deaths by high level people I can see. I
would also entertain thoughts that 'having Vamps/Shifters' in
the game may entice people to 'cross game' but that is something
of a pipe dream from my experiences. Also as a frame work for
creating 'bad guys' it is pretty nifty.
I don't want to sound like I'm slamming the people who put this
together. It is obvious some good time and thought has been put
into it, it just needs a more objective read on costs and how to
fit it into a larger game.
D&D (yeah, I hate using the 'n') 3.5 was mentioned, one of the
greatest things it did was to make the Human's one of the
Twinkies things to play and I think that is pretty cool. Though
that starts another discussion/debate (not a bad debate, just a
debate).
#Post#: 401--------------------------------------------------
Re: No Black Book Characters
By: whitepaws Date: April 1, 2015, 6:48 pm
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[quote=hjordanr]The cursed shifters don't get immune to normal
at all, let alone for free. Also, by DnD rules (at least in
3.5) they don't have fast healing at all. I think we've been
running the healing wrong this entire time because the rules set
that you and Chris developed and that we're working with glosses
over the count and doesn't have a number attached to the count
at all. Having brought up the count issue, plot will need to
assign a number to the count that feels relatively balanced and
we can run it that way for the next few games before errata so
that we can see how that stacks up to the way it's been run so
far. What kind of count was the healing supposed to be when you
were drafting the rules, Sean?[/quote]
Well that is good at least. I know from other people on plot
from Westmark that Cursed Shifters were a bit on the ridiculous
side. The way I understood the count from when Chris and myself
drew up the rules it was just as the skill title "Natural Heal
Wounds" each time it was said heals 1 body or 3 natural armor
and you have to heal your body before you can heal your armor. I
think adding something like "Natural Heal One Wound" can cause
the count to be confusing as it is accurate for body damage but
not natural armor damage. It takes a long time to heal if
someone glasses you and it is really hard to keep the count
going in the middle of the fight, which is kinda the point. I'd
be interested in hearing opinions on that but if it wasn't clear
in there it should be fixed to make it more clear.
As for making them more in line with the Cursed shifters, the
only issue I have with that is the how are we making them more
in line. I like the fact that the shifters and vampires are one
of the few unique parts of the thing as far as mechanics go in
that it isn't based on D&D. I think it hurts them to be made to
feel too much like D&D shifters. I trust Heath can do things
fairly as I've worked with him when these rules were originally
being made but I'd like to know more about what was in mind as
far as changes.
[quote=Zaud]The 'count' being a nebulous number is the tip of
the ice burg on issues, the other big one was 8 CP gets you a
ton of things for free (once you get to third level) and I look
forward to seeing how Heath assigns point values to the various
things. I missed entirely any susceptibility too Silver and it's
effects.[/quote]
I would agree maybe some trimming as far as the bonus modifiers
may be needed to be looking at but I'd also like to point out
not all shifters get a huge amount of bumps. I could see maybe a
scale as far of cost and 8 CP is a lot. By D&D terms it is
almost a level adjustment because you loose almost a whole level
worth of CP for it. The weakness to Silver is in all but three
of the shifters. One is to gold and the other two lose battle
rage and some other buffs in exchange. Those that have a
weakness take double damage from it. They can't use Natural Heal
Wounds to heal the damage and if not healed it carries over from
game to game. Since it doesn't heal naturally it has to be
healed with magic.
#Post#: 862--------------------------------------------------
Re: No Black Book Characters
By: Bearman Date: May 14, 2015, 8:30 pm
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My biggest complaint is that shifters pay 8 character points to
play then they get free stuff @ third level.
Suggestion: forms are free, that is what you get for the cp
cost, that and access to purchase the other abilities of a
shifter. 8 cp Wow you are a shifter, congrats now go buy the
stuff that makes them cool. Strength plus is 10 cp by the way,
you can buy X amount for xyz shifter.
Binding strike? Removed from pc's. Want it back? Get skill
plus 2 and death strike. No count required.
Heal self 1 wound? Replaced with:
Repair natural armor, first aide.
Add: field medic 3 cp (Prerequisite: first aide: for x (to be
determined) count bandage/ heal Y (to be determined). Count
cannot be interrupted or it must begin again. ( like repairing
armor). Note, anyone can purchase this and is not a shifter only
skill. Also note the large count and limited amount you heal
with that count. Note: not nerfing Mage healing, as it should
be way better.
I think also limiting every shifter class to limited massive is
a good thing, even in chrinos. No PC should be able to be full
massive, even limited is a stretch.
So I addressed the larger broken areas that I as a player
disagree with, and given what I feel is a balanced solution
#Post#: 866--------------------------------------------------
Re: No Black Book Characters
By: lerocketking Date: May 20, 2015, 7:13 pm
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Definatly no player should be able to shift to massive, limited
massive should be a hard to reach maximum
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