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DIR Return to: 2015 Errata Discussion
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#Post#: 441--------------------------------------------------
Re: Master-Crafted Ancient Helean Armor
DIR By: rich423
Date: April 3, 2015, 8:33 am
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I have a couple of questions regarding some of the issues on
this thread.
The Armour seems to expensive to ever be worth it. to put it in
perspective a Forge costs 60gp. so a suit of this stuff costs
180 gp, so the one suit can buy 3 forges, or we can equate it to
xp 1800 xp or this suit of Armour, your choice. To put that in
perspective, by my calculations 1800 xp is enough to take a
level 1 character to about half way to level 4 that is 33 cps.
So what is better this suit of Armour or 3 maxed trade skills? 4
levels of faith? and change or magic mastery. All of that or an
Armour that currently is broken by every single shatter variant
for 2-3 mana is unbalanced. ( to me those spells in and of them
selves are unbalanced but that is a discussion for another
time.) All for a bonus where it wont have a breach tag on the
Armour, so its quality will never degrade. It has been stated
multiple time in this thread all ready that " I never have a
problem with my Armour being broke due to blocking tactics etc"
It would seem if this level is easy enough to achieve ( through
the mechanics of the game not taking away from the skill levels
of the individuals involved, )Then what exactly is this ability
useful for? You would still want to block when you are wearing
it to avoid damage so your tactics remain the same. So the
bonus is usable when?
How to fix, Here are just a few ideas off the top of my head.
1. keep the unbreechable aspect, add it cant be destroyed/
unshaterable.
2. add in some native DR. Dr that can not be ignored This may
seem strong at first but remember exactly how much xp you are
giving up even if we were to cut the cost in half its still more
than a levels worth.
3.Immune to critical strikes- So this one requires some
explanation, again think what you are giving up for this
equipment, This gives it an ability that is approaching what you
are giving up.
4. we seriously over haul the cost/ ability to get level 2-3
components, if we make this easier it eases a lot of what is
wrong with this skill currently (what you have to put into it
vs what you get out of it. which currently is not remotely on
the same level.)
#Post#: 444--------------------------------------------------
Re: Master-Crafted Ancient Helean Armor
DIR By: ZachC
Date: April 3, 2015, 10:05 am
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I'd say the best fix would just be to add that it is not
effected by break/destroy effects.
DR armor sounds like an interesting concept, though, and may be
worthy of another thread. x5 production per point of DR (up to
5) and level 3 components would totally be worth it for that.
#Post#: 445--------------------------------------------------
Re: Master-Crafted Ancient Helean Armor
DIR By: Lothar6669
Date: April 3, 2015, 10:08 am
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Now that I could get behind.
#Post#: 446--------------------------------------------------
Re: Master-Crafted Ancient Helean Armor
DIR By: rich423
Date: April 3, 2015, 10:37 am
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--- Quote from: ZachC link ---
>
> I'd say the best fix would just be to add that it is not
effected by break/destroy effects.
>
>
> DR armor sounds like an interesting concept, though, and may
be worthy of another thread. x5 production per point of DR (up
to 5) and level 3 components would totally be worth it for that.
>
--- End Quote ---
I truly believe that unless you add that or the crit strike
being negated or the dr to this suit or something of that
magnitude and make it unbreakable you will never see this item
made. As armor breaking is not bad enough in game terms to
warrent such a high cost, i mean you can pay for a breech tag or
have someone use a 4 mana spell (invalidating a core function of
a trade skill........ but that is for another time.) or pay 180
gp so you never have to get a breech tag so it would take 3
level 3 order to make a breech tag so 12 gold so your armor made
of level 3 material would have to breech 16 times before you see
any dividend.
#Post#: 447--------------------------------------------------
Re: Master-Crafted Ancient Helean Armor
DIR By: hjordanr
Date: April 3, 2015, 11:03 am
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I think the Damage Reduction concept might be a good fix for
justifying how expensive this armor is. The only real benefit
that it has right now through never breaching is that you avoid
having to purchase third level component breach tags to fix it,
a fate that could also be avoided by just having a cheaper set
of armor. The only place it really shines is if it's combined
with zero cost armor smith skill that also requires Ore III in
order to make.
I don't know if it would be crazy but what if the Ancient Helean
Armor had the effect of being unbreachable (but still
destructible) and the Master-Crafted Ancient Helean Armor
granted Damage Reduction (and didn't affect breaches at all) at
1 point per 10 points of armor up to a total of 5 points with a
x2 production multiplier per point along with giving it the
Unshatterable property.
Feel free to pick those ideas apart as you wish. I do have one
quick point for Richard. Armor in general is larger than the
Shield Sized category so the 4th level Law spell Restore would
not fix it. However, the 11th level Matter spell Mend would be
able to repair it fully.
#Post#: 448--------------------------------------------------
Re: Master-Crafted Ancient Helean Armor
DIR By: ZachC
Date: April 3, 2015, 11:23 am
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How about this:
We lower the production cost of Ancient Helean to x2 production
and keep level II components and we keep Master-Crafted Ancient
Helean at x5 production but lower its components to level III.
Then we make a different skill to make DR armor.
OR
We go ahead and make Ancient Helean give DR, but Ancient Helean
will stay at x4 production with level II components with a max
of 1 DR and breaches at only 1 point per breach. Then we change
Master-Crafted Ancient Helean to where it is doesn't breach and
can get DR up to 3 with a x5 for each point of DR, still using
level III components.
#Post#: 449--------------------------------------------------
Re: Master-Crafted Ancient Helean Armor
DIR By: rich423
Date: April 3, 2015, 11:39 am
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--- Quote from: hjordanr link ---
>
> I think the Damage Reduction concept might be a good fix for
justifying how expensive this armor is. The only real benefit
that it has right now through never breaching is that you avoid
having to purchase third level component breach tags to fix it,
a fate that could also be avoided by just having a cheaper set
of armor. The only place it really shines is if it's combined
with zero cost armor smith skill that also requires Ore III in
order to make.
>
> I don't know if it would be crazy but what if the Ancient
Helean Armor had the effect of being unbreachable (but still
destructible) and the Master-Crafted Ancient Helean Armor
granted Damage Reduction (and didn't affect breaches at all) at
1 point per 10 points of armor up to a total of 5 points with a
x2 production multiplier per point along with giving it the
Unshatterable property.
>
> Feel free to pick those ideas apart as you wish. I do have
one quick point for Richard. Armor in general is larger than
the Shield Sized category so the 4th level Law spell Restore
would not fix it. However, the 11th level Matter spell Mend
would be able to repair it fully.
>
--- End Quote ---
My mistake I thought that it would as on page 58 it states in
the repair armor section that "The last method of repairing
manufactured armor is through spells such as Restore and Mend.
The use of these spells upon a suit of
all armor will instantly bring the suit to its maximum value."
If restore is not meant to do such a thing, then we may need to
change that wording on page 58 for the errata.
#Post#: 452--------------------------------------------------
Re: Master-Crafted Ancient Helean Armor
DIR By: Lothar6669
Date: April 3, 2015, 1:09 pm
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Ok, so the problem with the wording is there are two spells
called restore. One, a 4th level law spell, and another a 13th
level Chronos spell. The reference is to the 13th level spell.
But that should be clarified.
#Post#: 455--------------------------------------------------
Re: Master-Crafted Ancient Helean Armor
DIR By: hjordanr
Date: April 3, 2015, 1:35 pm
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Good catch, Austin. Path of Law will need some rewording to
have clearer names. It also has the Clear Mind spell at 3rd
level which has an extremely similar name to the Path of Mind
spell Clear and both incantations end with "clear your mind."
#Post#: 456--------------------------------------------------
Re: Master-Crafted Ancient Helean Armor
DIR By: iikepie13
Date: April 3, 2015, 1:39 pm
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I like Heaths idea of having it only be the Master crafted that
gives a DR.
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