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DIR Return to: 2015 Errata Discussion
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#Post#: 282--------------------------------------------------
Umbral Stuff
DIR By: Zaud
Date: March 28, 2015, 1:25 am
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I believe these can be removed from the lower power level part
of the game.
Why:
-We have a limited player base and taking away plot time/effort
for a small number of players should be avoided.
-It confuses new players and thus is better put into an axillary
book for 'late game' play.
-It is 'good' for High Level Mages in that they do not have to
spend cp on getting new spells/paths but until Warriors/Rogues
have similar advancement potential it increases the golf between
the high level play between men at arms and spell casters.
How:
I believe these skills should have a 'Minimum' level before
being usable.
#Post#: 291--------------------------------------------------
Re: Umbral Stuff
DIR By: whitepaws
Date: March 28, 2015, 5:11 pm
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They already do. All of the Umbral Skills are italicized. They
can't be gained except for by plot approval or plot cookie at
character creation. Post character creation you need a teacher
for them like every other skill.
#Post#: 311--------------------------------------------------
Re: Umbral Stuff
DIR By: Zaud
Date: March 29, 2015, 11:02 pm
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Whitepaw: I am curious on what you have to say for the three
reasons I gave for it's removal from the main book.
#Post#: 343--------------------------------------------------
Re: Umbral Stuff
DIR By: whitepaws
Date: March 31, 2015, 6:44 pm
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1. Personal Character development and backstory plots do the
same thing. I don't see it as a big issue so long as the power
isn't spammed. Even still its a skill I've only seen one player
ever have in a game. Very few players are going to go after it
so its chance to hold up plot is minimal.
2. I fail to see how it confuses new players. It's a set of
skills that let you act on a different plane of existence. It
really isn't anything for new players to worry about.
3. There is nothing stopping other classes from getting this
skill it is just more expensive for them. It costs CP so I fail
to see how it increases the gulf between mages and other
classes.
#Post#: 352--------------------------------------------------
Re: Umbral Stuff
DIR By: Zaud
Date: March 31, 2015, 9:23 pm
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My experience with this kind of 'stuff' is in various
'crossover' World of Darkness games and 'Tim's' game. In both
cases it opens doors for side slipping plots and creating
twinkie ways to PK.
I love Werewolf though, so do not get me wrong. I think 'umbral'
adventures can be very interesting to run and play, but I feel
'adding' things from other games for the sake of 'adding them'
is a mistake.
If used, it should be something Plot has taken into account from
day one.
If the game is planning to 'always' be based on quest groups and
never become 'world course' it probably is not as big a problem
until player characters (or Players) decide to start 'going
after' other players (or their characters).
#Post#: 354--------------------------------------------------
Re: Umbral Stuff
DIR By: whitepaws
Date: March 31, 2015, 9:31 pm
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Well that depends on the way they are running the Umbra. In
Tim's game the Umbra is not a place of rainbows and butterflies.
It is a dark and dangerous place.
I also wouldn't assume that because some of the ideas are from
the World of Darkness that it is a direct port or that it works
exactly like things from that game. The umbra skill tree doesn't
allow combat until 11 CP in and it works more like Astral
Projection than jumping in and out of the Umbra like Garou do.
PvP also is a part of the game and I don't think a skill should
just be hidden just because of its PvP potential alone.
#Post#: 356--------------------------------------------------
Re: Umbral Stuff
DIR By: Zaud
Date: March 31, 2015, 10:55 pm
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This will be my last post on the topic, since it isn't a big
deal to me:
restating: We have a limited player base and taking away plot
time/effort for a small number of players should be avoided.
If you feel it adds to the quality of the game, keep it.
More is not always better, you can not make every player happy,
but with rotating Plot having the Umbra adds an extra complexity
that opens doors for some Plot not feeling comfortable with part
of the game.
I harp on the idea 'make the game easy for new players' but that
can also be said for a rotating Plot teams. It takes longer for
them to get acclimated the more they have to figure out.
#Post#: 400--------------------------------------------------
Re: Umbral Stuff
DIR By: whitepaws
Date: April 1, 2015, 6:30 pm
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I do believe it adds quality to the game and especially for
higher level players. When you knock over modules like a child
knocking over toy soldiers having something that you can do to
give yourself a unique challenge, the Umbra, would be an
interesting aspect of the game and I do believe we are in
agreement that it only should be for those characters.
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