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DIR Return to: 2015 Errata Discussion
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#Post#: 277--------------------------------------------------
Rogue and Body
DIR By: Zaud
Date: March 28, 2015, 12:36 am
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What makes Rogues so powerful as a class that they need to have
the second lowest body?
I realize the proto game was stolen from Table Top games but
LARP and Table Top games are quite different in how they play
out.
I can understand that classes that use Magic (or Faith) can
sacrifice some of their health for the added power/versatility
of spell casting but the balancing done regarding skills means
reduced 'body' should be used as a balancing factor.
Thematic, living on the streets as a stereotypical rogue does,
should make them tougher, not weaker.
#Post#: 289--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rogue and Body
DIR By: whitepaws
Date: March 28, 2015, 5:08 pm
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I think the argument not only is that they aren't in combat as
much as a warrior is but in addition to getting combat attacks
and defenses like a warrior can via back-stab they also get a
reduced cost for alchemy and for their own set of skills (Rogue
Skills). They also don't fight straight up fight like a warrior
does. It's about surprise and one drop and then run. When it
comes down to it they do have their own special set of benefits
just not as big as mages. Hence I believe the logic for why they
have less HP.
#Post#: 297--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rogue and Body
DIR By: ZachC
Date: March 28, 2015, 6:14 pm
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Don't forget that rogues get trapmaking, execute, and evade
cheapest.
#Post#: 305--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rogue and Body
DIR By: Zaud
Date: March 29, 2015, 10:41 pm
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Currently they do get 'evade' slightly cheaper then other
classes but the Stamina to make it useful gets eaten up and is
more difficult to come by because they have so many skills
'besides' +damage to get them there.
They wear close to half the armor of a fighter, and only 5
points more then a Theurge, just not sure taking away so much
body is done for balance.
It is part of my 'LARP should not be same as Table Top' just for
the sake of being the same, they are different environments and
so balance is very different. I realize getting this across is
an uphill battle as we are all reluctant to change.
#Post#: 319--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rogue and Body
DIR By: hjordanr
Date: March 30, 2015, 10:27 am
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I'd ask that you actually make a concrete suggestion as to what
you would like to see it changed to. Do you think they should
start with a higher body point total? Do you think they should
get more body points per level but keep the base pool the same?
Maybe you would like to see them get both. Postulating these
questions is great and all but without an actual suggestion to
work off of we won't be making votes on this come errata.
#Post#: 325--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rogue and Body
DIR By: Zaud
Date: March 30, 2015, 7:12 pm
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My Plan for most of my 'errata' threads was to listen to what
people had to say over a few weeks and then put forth the change
in a more 'vote-able' format. My concern is if 'I' am the one to
come up with the change people will be less likely to 'ok' it,
but if it is a consensus people will get to make a more informed
choice.
#Post#: 334--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rogue and Body
DIR By: ZachC
Date: March 30, 2015, 8:48 pm
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I'm with Heath. I'd much rather see a fully fleshed out idea
and offer my critique on it.
And I wouldn't say that warriors only concentrate on plus damage
skills. Sure, my character focuses on that but that's what I
enjoy playing. Some people like to play armor smiths or weapon
smiths. Some get up to skill +2 and never go higher, focusing
on trade and scholar skills. Rogues can get backstabs at the
same rate as a warrior gets skill plus. A rogue can have All
Small Weapons Master Backstab +4, and Evade halfway through
level 2, which is enough to use it four times. It just depends
on how you build and focus your character. If you want to be a
rogue that's more on the straight combat side, maybe you should
consider playing a ranger.
#Post#: 336--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rogue and Body
DIR By: hjordanr
Date: March 30, 2015, 8:58 pm
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I still think that it's more useful to have a more refined idea
to debate on rather than just the general idea of "I think
rogues should have more body." The only problem I can see with
giving rogues more body is that people will likely want to argue
for a re-balance of body points across the board. A minor buff
could be to give the a +2, +3 progression like rangers have.
That would give them the third best body point progression in
the game at that point behind warriors and rangers.
#Post#: 337--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rogue and Body
DIR By: Zaud
Date: March 31, 2015, 12:15 am
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I'm more interested in a Rogue that is useful to a party. The
changes to Disable Device should help and from what I see will
be about the only thing I can hope for out of this round of
Errata.
I don't look at 'Armor Smith/Weapon Smith' as a Fighter thing. I
look at those as Tradesman skills. Disable Device is a staple of
what makes a rogue a rogue, the extra damage is something to
make them selectively useful in a fight, the fact that the
Critical Strikes/Faints can be done from the front side is
pretty huge and I would probably argue against them if I didn't
think other 'classes' had the over all advantage at the moment.
I'll make sure all new errata threads I start are written in the
form of a 'vote' like question.
#Post#: 346--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rogue and Body
DIR By: whitepaws
Date: March 31, 2015, 7:59 pm
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Critical Strikes/Death Strike can be used from the front because
they can also be blocked something you can't do with an Execute.
That is the trade off. You have to attack from behind and you
get an insta gibb on the person. They are dead barring some sort
of magical barrier.
Rogues can be quite useful especially if you get into alchemy.
Alchemy can get pretty nasty and on some level be just as
awesome as rolling around with spells. I think there are plenty
of flavors of rogues that can be drawn up each with their own
unique way of being useful that aren't being accounted for in
this argument. Rogues can diversify outside of just Disable
Device.
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