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#Post#: 993--------------------------------------------------
New Minstrel Class/Order/Skills Write-Up (Finally)
By: JessicaE Date: July 8, 2015, 7:13 pm
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Sorry we weren't able to get this posted sooner, but attached is
the new bard-style class Aaron and I have been working on. We've
made it so that it could be used as a full blown class, a
separate set of skills, or in combination with an order for
theurges and rouges. Please read the document all the way
through before commenting.
#Post#: 999--------------------------------------------------
Re: New Minstrel Class/Order/Skills Write-Up (Finally)
By: ZachC Date: July 9, 2015, 6:58 am
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I'm sorry to say it like this but the system as you've written
it doesn't appeal to me. I think its too complicated and too
difficult to implement into a LARP setting. I'm also not sure
about music having magical/almost magical properties (this
coming from someone that considers themselves a bit of a
musician). At this point we definitely don't need to add
another class (we'd have to figure out the math to balance out
every other skill in the game for minstrel, too). I do like the
idea of a Minstrel/Bard College that gives path of sound to
spellcasters and natural sound effects to non-spellcasters. I
think they should be allowed to wield weapons, though, and the
college shouldn't be limited to just rogues and theurges (Maybe
make a Minstrel college for Mage, Paladin, and Theurge that gets
Path of Sound and another path, then the Bard College for
Warriors, Rogues, Rangers, and Monks that gets natural Sound).
In short, though, I think that Minstrel/Bard would probably work
better as a trade skill since it is a job that most anybody can
do if they put in the time and effort. I think it would
probably be more appealing that way, too.
#Post#: 1000--------------------------------------------------
Re: New Minstrel Class/Order/Skills Write-Up (Finally)
By: togapika Date: July 9, 2015, 7:24 am
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I agree on the complex part, you've got multiple skills that are
only there for the purpose of affecting another skill. Also
stuff like aura health reduction and stamina changes are really
difficult to mete out in a fight, especially since people
already need to know all of their stamina modifiers. In addition
to that, anything that causes extra holds is best steered away
from and having to call a hold, pull out your sheet to see all
of the modifiers for your skill, and even use a tape to measure
out your distance would be a huge pain, not just for the
minstrel, but everyone involved.
Just as a personal thing, I also don't like the idea of a class
being shoehorned into only one thing. If you want a
support/buffing class; great, but I don't like the idea of a
class who's just one thing "Music"
#Post#: 1002--------------------------------------------------
Re: New Minstrel Class/Order/Skills Write-Up (Finally)
By: aaronsfrench Date: July 9, 2015, 12:57 pm
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As for almost magical properties this is a fantasy game with
magic for one, for two it can be used as it states in the page
to inspire or create dread into your enemies, so that could just
be a mechanic for what acts like magic but is closer to filling
someone with emotion so their adrenaline kicks in or puts fear
into the enemies because of this loud sound making it seem like
there is more power on your side of the field. For historical
references true bards did not have weapons because they believed
that their music would keep people joyful and/or keep unwanted
people from harming them, because they are a person with no
weapons and are harmless. As for the complexity of it, it is
only as complex as you make it out to be, for people who play
rogues with multiple things like training to be an assassin,
alchemist, or an escapist there is just as much complex stuff in
that as there is in Minstrel, or theuges for they can pull off
magic along with that. There was mention of keep track of
distance of the radius, what do we do with wall spells? Most of
the time the players are able to keep up with the bounders of
walls and even if it is marked people still run into it
occasionally. As for the stamina/mana effect people do that all
the time with the stamina chart, not only that but there are
some spells that also have an X mana application to them. Being
that it is only music does not make it a poor class, there is
also the other other charts (it will mostly relate best with the
rogue skills) that can give it some more flavor if you so choose
to do so. Balancing the math on all the other skills in the game
just takes time, and if your willing to put in the time then
there is no problem. Please keep commenting so we can get a good
dicussion out of this.
#Post#: 1003--------------------------------------------------
Re: New Minstrel Class/Order/Skills Write-Up (Finally)
By: togapika Date: July 9, 2015, 5:25 pm
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I'm just not a fan of having all of the separate skills, needing
one for the distance, one for the potency, etc.
Also I just feel that the "music" theme is too limiting. A rogue
has the theme of "Tricky", but that can be anything from
alchemy, traps, stabby types, ranged, etc. With the Minstrel,
they'd all be taking basically the same skills and getting the
same benefits with no real variation. Even monks have variety in
the form of their magical paths and who they worship
#Post#: 1006--------------------------------------------------
Re: New Minstrel Class/Order/Skills Write-Up (Finally)
By: aaronsfrench Date: July 9, 2015, 7:06 pm
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Considering that Music is mostly what they are about, not to
mention that their variations have different effects that can
add plus body, temp damage, and allowing healing effects to be
more efficient. They have what a Minstrel should be able to do,
play music, support players, they can still fight with their
instrument for damage if they want, and if this isn't your cup
of tea then don't play it. As for the mechanics, this allows for
the player to choose if they want to have a stronger effect, or
more effects at the start, and unlike any other class this one
actually applies a constant effect as they play along with an
area to empower players or harm opponents. Mage spells are 95%
of the time ONE target, and have to keep spending the mana for
more people. Warriors skills are 90% of the time ONE target.
Minstrels are the only characters with the efficiency to have
this unique effect while beating someone with an instrument at
the same time. Please add discussion to this topic as Errata is
upon us.
#Post#: 1008--------------------------------------------------
Re: New Minstrel Class/Order/Skills Write-Up (Finally)
By: ZachC Date: July 9, 2015, 10:22 pm
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Here's why the radius effects don't work. Mages only use them
for Wall Spells, Blood Gloat, Glyphs, and Rift (there may be
another 1 or 2). Walls are generally laid out before a scene or
in an enclosed space where you don't need a marker. You
generally don't get more than one in an encounter and they're
all the same size.
With the crescendo skill that is proposed the radius varies. It
could be a 1 foot (I presume; the document actually lists
everything in inches) to 50 feet radius, meaning up to a 100 ft
diameter. That is ridiculous. Either the area effects need to
be taken out all together or maxed at a 10 - 20 ft diameter.
Also, how do you currently call the effect of "Plus Damage Level
6 20 ft radius 10 minute duration"?
Echo also needlessly complicates the skill, too. I'd suggest
giving each skill a set duration and leaving it that way.
To the point about minstrels and bards historically not
fighting: it isn't that they didn't fight. They were just high
society poets. I'd be surprised if none of them dueled
occasionally at the least. I'm also not keen on people using a
boffer instrument to hit people. I can appreciate the silliness
but I don't want that as part of this game (yes, I know I use a
fish as a weapon occasionally but there's even story behind
that). If I hit someone with a guitar in real life it would
stagger them and shatter. Then I'd be a musician without an
instrument. Also, making a boffer instrument that doesn't look
like crap would be difficult.
#Post#: 1009--------------------------------------------------
Re: New Minstrel Class/Order/Skills Write-Up (Finally)
By: aaronsfrench Date: July 9, 2015, 11:37 pm
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You say that radius doesn't work but there hasn't been this
style of system played yet. If you say it can't work then your
not willing to try it is what it seems like you are saying. As
for the Radius, players are intelligent enough to know about
where 10 feet is, and can fight accordingly to those mechanics.
Call will probably be "5 feet radius Healing x2" and after the
player stops playing "effect lasts 30 minutes". Echo gives the
players affected by the effect buff for a time, instead of it
being instant. The intsrument should NOT need to be flawless as
long as it looks like it and still meets the requirements as a
boffa should, also again with the breaking of a real world
instrument this is a game, try to not associate every detail
with real life circumstance. Also instead of making a statement
"this needlessly complicates" please actually gives a reason why
it does. And if you suggest a change give a mechanic so it can
be decided on. Please keep responding to the post to make more
dicussion on the topic.
#Post#: 1010--------------------------------------------------
Re: New Minstrel Class/Order/Skills Write-Up (Finally)
By: Samjuria Date: July 9, 2015, 11:59 pm
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My opinion is that the system is a little too complicated. If it
were condensed to one skill that was being bought, similar to
faith effects I would be okay with it. Essentially you buy the
bard skill and get 5 points to spend on effects each time you
buy the skill. The radius is a set 10' and the time that the
effect lasts depends on the level of the effect. Like with faith
you learn X amount of effects at start of game and can learn the
rest through instruction.
This will also lower the total character point expenditure on
the skill. As it is if you wanted to play it you would have to
sink all of your points into the various skills if you want to
be a half decent bard.
#Post#: 1011--------------------------------------------------
Re: New Minstrel Class/Order/Skills Write-Up (Finally)
By: togapika Date: July 10, 2015, 7:32 am
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I agree with the one skill akin to monks idea. You could even
have different schools to learn skills from for further
differentiation of characters. I don't like having to buy
different skills for range, effect, duration, etc. It reduces
character variety because they have to spend all their points on
the same skills and have few to none left over.
As for people being intelligent enough to know 10 feet, in a
fight some of our players have trouble remembering their own
effects and abilities, let alone those of another character.
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