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DIR Return to: 2015 Errata Discussion
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#Post#: 904--------------------------------------------------
Spell Books and Learning Spells through Instruction Discussion a
nd Ideas
By: ZachC Date: June 21, 2015, 8:15 pm
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The idea was brought up not too long ago about removing spells
from the list of things that can be taught with Instruction to
try to slow down the incredibly quick spread of spells. To make
this more reasonable, the idea of using spell books to teach and
trade spells was brought up. So today, Jonathon (Samjuria),
Michael (iikepie13), and myself did some brainstorming and came
up with the following ideas for how to make spell books useful
and cool, whether instruction can or cannot teach spells.
Spell Books (Instruction CANNOT teach spells)
Every spell caster starts at creation with a spell book
containing all of their spells. Additional spell books can be
purchased for 1 gold. Characters can write spells into spell
books at the cost of 2 silver per level of the spell. It takes
a day per level of the spell to learn to cast the spell.
Foci can be added to spell books by a tradesman with the
appropriate level in their craft.
Spell books can also be used for research. It requires 3 weeks
per level of the spell. Characters can research in a lab while
also using a spell book to research, however, it increases the
research time in the spell book to four weeks per level of the
spell. Spell books cannot be used to research new paths.
Spell Books (Instruction CAN teach spells)
Spell books can be purchased for 1 gold. Characters can write
spells into spell books at the cost of 2 silver per level of the
spell. It takes a day per level of the spell to learn to cast
the spell.
Foci can be added to spell books by a tradesman with the
appropriate level in their craft.
Spell books can also be used for research. It requires 3 weeks
per level of the spell. Characters can research in a lab while
also using a spell book to research, however, it increases the
research time in the spell book to four weeks per level of the
spell. Spell books cannot be used to research new paths.
Any tweaks?
#Post#: 905--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spell Books and Learning Spells through Instruction Discussi
on and Ideas
By: Lothar6669 Date: June 21, 2015, 10:46 pm
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Im don't like the spell books being able to be used for
research, other than that I like it.
#Post#: 906--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spell Books and Learning Spells through Instruction Discussi
on and Ideas
By: ZachC Date: June 22, 2015, 6:08 am
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We thought that the blisteringly slow research speed would keep
it balanced. It also would let new players have a chance to
learn new things without the expense of a lab. But again, it
takes 3 weeks to learn how to make a light. Or 21 weeks (5.25
months) to learn to make a wall, assuming the player succeeds in
the bead pick.
Does it need to be clarified that you can only use one spell
book at a time to research?
#Post#: 907--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spell Books and Learning Spells through Instruction Discussi
on and Ideas
By: Samjuria Date: June 22, 2015, 8:02 am
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That would be a good clarification to make. Wouldn't want people
with 10 books researching out of all of them.
#Post#: 908--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spell Books and Learning Spells through Instruction Discussi
on and Ideas
By: hjordanr Date: June 22, 2015, 8:36 am
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Here's a question that I don't think got sufficiently answered
last time. What happens if you lose your spellbook? Will you
still be able to cast your spells? Would you have to start a
new book completely from scratch and spend all the money and
time to get all of your spells back? What role does the book
have when actively casting a spell? Does one need to have it in
hand or merely on their person? If it must merely be on their
person why would losing it cause them to lose the ability to
cast the spell (if that is deemed to be the case)?
A few other questions I think would need to be addressed. Would
this necessitate extending limited research capacity to other
book based skills in the game such as alchemy, potion making,
and scroll making books? How many spells can you copy down at
one time? All of the aforementioned skills require Read & Write
in order to use so would that be the case for magic at that
point as well? If not, why? If you copy multiple spells how do
you determine the order in which the person learns them? Is
there still a silver cost associated with research done solely
with a book as there is with a lab?
Perhaps we could make
#Post#: 909--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spell Books and Learning Spells through Instruction Discussi
on and Ideas
By: Samjuria Date: June 22, 2015, 9:27 am
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This is my understanding of what was discussed along with my
opinions on some of the questions asked.
Q: What happens if you lose your spellbook? Will you still be
able to cast your spells?
A: The spell book allows you to be able to learn spells that are
written within. You still know how to cast the spells that
you've learned, same as the system that we have now.
Q:Would you have to start a new book completely from scratch and
spend all the money and time to get all of your spells back?
A: If you wanted to have a spell book with all of the spells
that where in it when you lost it then yes.
Q: What role does the book have when actively casting a spell?
Does one need to have it in hand or merely on their person?
A: The book isn't needed for casting but can have a focus placed
on it so that you can cast through it, working like a normal
focus you must touch the focus before casting.
Q: How many spells can you copy down at one time?
A: The way it is right now you can copy as many down as you have
money and teachers.
Q:All of the aforementioned skills require Read & Write in order
to use so would that be the case for magic at that point as
well?
A: This could go either way for me, I think that if you know the
path you should be able to understand the spells but I can
understand needing read write for a spell book. I would say if
instruction gets changed then no you don't need read and write
for the spell book but if it doesn't then read and write is a
pre req.
Q: If you copy multiple spells how do you determine the order in
which the person learns them?
A: Same as learning out of a lab, the person learning will
choose the order.
Q: Is there still a silver cost associated with research done
solely with a book as there is with a lab?
A: Yes
#Post#: 912--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spell Books and Learning Spells through Instruction Discussi
on and Ideas
By: Lothar6669 Date: June 22, 2015, 10:06 am
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Q: How many spells can you copy down at one time?
A: The way it is right now you can copy as many down as you have
money and teachers.
This can be kind of dangerous as one person could power game
spells in one game and miss the next few games while still
learning spells. I feel like there should be a cap somewhere
whether it be a max of X spells at once, or spells equaling a
certain level, so maybe no more than 30 levels of spells at
once. Or does that complicate things too much?
#Post#: 916--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spell Books and Learning Spells through Instruction Discussi
on and Ideas
By: hjordanr Date: June 22, 2015, 1:32 pm
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I agree with Austin. If that were to be the way that it worked
then it wouldn't necessarily slow anything down, at least not
for the most determined and power-focused players.
The book is also unclear about whether or not you need to be
able to access your book of recipes in order to produce items
with Alchemy, Potion-making, and Scroll-making. If it is
required that you have access to those books in order to utilize
them then I don't know how we could justify allowing magic users
to use spells from spellbooks that they do not currently have in
their possession.
We could allow magic users to be able to cast spells known at a
level equal to 1/10th their mana pool without having access to a
book if it was decided that they would need access to the book.
The alternative is to allow Alchemists and Potion and Scroll
makers to produce their goods without having to consult their
books.
I might be getting too caught up on the similarities. However,
to me they seem so similar that saying spellbooks work one way
and recipe books work another needs to have well thought out
reasoning. You guys have done well so far and I think with some
more finagling this would be a good alternative to the current
system.
I'm not against Austin's idea of putting a limit on the level's
worth of spells you can learn. Either that or making it a hard
cap of "you can only record X number of spells per game."
However, if we did either we'd have to consider it with regards
to Alchemy, Potion-making, and Scroll-making. Scroll-making
doubly so due to it also being a source from which one can learn
spells.
#Post#: 919--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spell Books and Learning Spells through Instruction Discussi
on and Ideas
By: Samjuria Date: June 22, 2015, 4:42 pm
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Since magic gets actively used in the field I feel like the book
shouldn't be necessary. Craft skills only need the book while
producing then they can leave it safely at home while using what
they produced. A mage would not get that luxury if the book was
necessary to cast, it would also make the book the first target
for break effects leaving the mage about useless. I know foci
are about the same thing but they're much cheaper to replace. A
base build character would have to spend a minimum of 3.7 gold
to replace for a level 1 mage with three paths. That's almost
enough to buy a master foci.
#Post#: 920--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spell Books and Learning Spells through Instruction Discussi
on and Ideas
By: ZachC Date: June 22, 2015, 5:29 pm
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What about this...
You can have as many spells written in your book as you can find
and afford each game. The catch, however, is that you can only
learn/memorize up to three spells at each game. You do learn
them instantly, though.
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