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DIR Return to: 2015 Errata Discussion
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#Post#: 513--------------------------------------------------
Magic mastery
DIR By: rich423
Date: April 5, 2015, 7:05 pm
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For reference the skill
30cp for a mage 35 for a theurge
Magic Mastery
This skill allows the character to buy of Paths of Magic at zero
cost. Paths of Magic the character
possesses contribute to the cost of this skill. A character may
learn as many High Magics as they can find
instructors for once they learn Magic Mastery
All paths of magic for no cost, and all high magics one can find
tutors for. That is a saving of on average of 64cps if you use
it to learn the out of school paths. ( this math is based on
assuming you start with 4 in school paths as all the orders due
save the self taught) So this one skill can give you 6.4 levels
worth of cps for 30 cps and no other Prerequisites. so by
spending 30 you get 64 worth ok that's a good deal, right there
( this is not even including all of the high magic savings) .
Now we must ask ourselves would players aspire towards this, as
it lets mages learn new spells much more easily and is simply
the most cost efficient way to play that answer is a yes. So
now that we have established that mages will aspire to this, now
we have to see what they learn. As they could in theory learn
any spell in the game for no cp cost via instruction there
possibilities are in fact endless, fast travel, resurrection,
kill on sight, etc. I belive this to be unbalenced, not only
that it really and truly homogenizes all spell casters in the
game into one class, where everyone will know everything, and
characters with out magic abilities will be strictly inferior.
magic mastery gains a chracter for 30 cps accsess to
unparalleled options and versatility, after this point the
chracter really only needs to spend cps on mana, as you will
eventually know all spells from instruction skills, IE " I will
teach you x spell if you teach me Y spell" Which while make
great role play from a machanic perspective, it will create a
snow ball effect. All spell casters will, know all spells there
will be no diferentiation between any of them, and they will all
have the versatility of knowing all spells known in that game at
that time, when a new spell becomes known other spell casters,
will seek out that individual that knows the spell, to have them
taught it to them. Thus creating furthering the machine as it
were. The major thing that is the issue with all of the high end
magic skills is that they all work together so if one is " going
for" one you simply pick up all of the others in the process.
Now that we have outlined the problem lets looks at some
possible solutions.
1. make learning spells harder, get rid of instruction being
able to circumvent scrolls to learn spells this makes scroll
making have a larger roll ( from the little to non existent one)
to the roll that it seems it was intended to have.
2. get rid of magic mastery all together. There are allready
end game cap stones via high magics that can be aspired towards.
3. make the cp cost of magic mastery much higher if there is a
skill that can theoretically save 126 cps then it needs to have
its cost increased possibly even doubled. MODIFICATION The math
is clearly wrong here, however the points of having this skill
increased I believe remains valid.
4. part of the problem with magic users comes from all the
versalility, with no weakness in specilization to show for it.
to alliviate this I propose we split the mage class into
viarients sorcer, wizard d the wizard would know mroe spells
but have to prepare them before hand. the sorcer would know less
spells, possibly only being to learn spells at a set number per
level or cps used to purchase pells. But they have greatly
increased mana and can cast as all casters to now.
#Post#: 521--------------------------------------------------
Re: Magic mastery
DIR By: hjordanr
Date: April 5, 2015, 7:25 pm
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I really don't understand where you're pulling your numbers
from. If you had 4 in-school paths then that would leave 12 out
of schools which would cost 48 cp to get. Since you will have
invested 8 cp towards magic mastery via your in-school paths you
would need to find another 22 cp worth of paths to learn in
order to purchase the skill. This means that at the end of it
all you will have saved 26 cp on the remaining magic paths
assuming you can find someone willing to teach you all of them
(which is exceedingly unlikely for Mind, Arcane, Helios, and
Luna). I agree with your points that spell progression needs to
be slowed down some and also that the cost for Magic Mastery may
need to be increased.
#Post#: 524--------------------------------------------------
Re: Magic mastery
DIR By: rich423
Date: April 5, 2015, 7:39 pm
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There are 20 paths of magic listed in the book they are as
follows
ELEMENTAL FAMILY
................................................. 64
1 Path of Air
..................................................................
64
2 Path of Earth
............................................................. 66
3 Path of Fire
................................................................
68
4 Path of Water
............................................................ 70
BALANCE FAMILY
....................................................... 71
5 Path of Matter
........................................................... 71
6 Path of Chaos
............................................................ 74
7 Path of Law
................................................................
75
8 Path of Mind
..............................................................
77
CYCLE FAMILY
..............................................................
78
9 Path of Blood
............................................................. 78
10 Path of Death
............................................................ 80
11 Path of Life
.................................................................
82
12Path of Soul
...............................................................
83
FAERIE FAMILY
............................................................ 85
13 Path of Charms
........................................................ 85
14 Path of Chronos
....................................................... 87
15 Path of Nature
.......................................................... 89
16 Path of Sound
........................................................... 90
ANCIENT FAMILY
........................................................ 92
17 Path of Arcane
.......................................................... 92
18 Path of Luna
..............................................................
94
19 Path of Helios
........................................................... 95
20 Path of Warding
....................................................... 97
I did not even realize that you could use your cps you had
already used on your own paths towards magic mastery so for 22
co you get 16 other schools? Thats 64 cps for 22 so a savings
of 42 cps over 4 levels worth. On the point where you must find
someone to teach you the spells, if its not impossible it can be
done it game thus it must be balanced around, as it will
eventually be " hey where do i go to learn x spell?. Ohh you
go to y person he has those." And as soon as one knows it
another will know it and another and another ad Infinitum.
The line in my original post of 3. make the cp cost of magic
mastery much higher if there is a skill that can theoretically
save 126 cps then it needs to have its cost increased possibly
even doubled. was in one of my older versions of the post when
I was assuming you could start with no paths in school save
one thus making the total cost of the other paths 4*19 and my
math was clearly flawed, ( apparently one should not do math
after gouging n brisket and pulled pork) I will leave the line
so further posts can read the chain as it were. and have it make
sense.
#Post#: 528--------------------------------------------------
Re: Magic mastery
DIR By: hjordanr
Date: April 5, 2015, 7:56 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I apparently overlooked a whole family of magics somehow so your
slight math mistake isn't that bad overall. If we increased the
cost of the skill what would be a number of character points
that would leave you, personally, feeling comfortable?
#Post#: 531--------------------------------------------------
Re: Magic mastery
DIR By: rich423
Date: April 5, 2015, 8:07 pm
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--- Quote from: hjordanr link ---
>
> I apparently overlooked a whole family of magics somehow so
your slight math mistake isn't that bad overall. If we
increased the cost of the skill what would be a number of
character points that would leave you, personally, feeling
comfortable?
>
--- End Quote ---
I mean how much free cps do you want to give away at that level?
If we have established it saves you 42 cps is it un reasonable
that we only give away two levles? I feel the more I think
about it allowing a caster to know all of the magicall paths
seems like it really homaginizes all of them.
#Post#: 535--------------------------------------------------
Re: Magic mastery
DIR By: Samjuria
Date: April 5, 2015, 8:18 pm
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A point that I want to emphasize is that you WILL NOT get all
the paths as a player without some very serious role playing and
in character effort and cost. With that said I would be okay
with increasing the cost of magic mastery even as a mage.
Ideally, I would want it in line with grandmaster maybe even a
little less.
#Post#: 537--------------------------------------------------
Re: Magic mastery
DIR By: rich423
Date: April 5, 2015, 8:29 pm
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Grand master costs 30, for a warrior, are you saying you would
likenit to remain the same, or less? I do not bekive that
grand master even begins to approach the same power level, of
magic mastery, let alone if it is even worth to take but thats
another thread, as for the role play cost. Its really
almostimpossible to estimate a roleplay cost as it can
varybwildly amoung players. Maybe the skill is ok if it costs
52 as it ONLY gives you 20 cps worth of advancement.
#Post#: 539--------------------------------------------------
Re: Magic mastery
DIR By: hjordanr
Date: April 5, 2015, 8:40 pm
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The grandmaster writeup is terrible as is and needs to be
redone. With grandmaster you get proficiency with all weapons
and the ability to learn all the techniques and styles as zero
cost skills so it's pretty good.
#Post#: 541--------------------------------------------------
Re: Magic mastery
DIR By: Samjuria
Date: April 5, 2015, 8:44 pm
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I was meaning that the cost savings would be on par with
grandmaster as its run not how it is in the book. I understand
that it should be high enough that not everyone and their mother
is going after it but should still be attainable for those that
want it.
#Post#: 542--------------------------------------------------
Re: Magic mastery
DIR By: ZachC
Date: April 5, 2015, 8:46 pm
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What Heath said. There are many very good reasons to get Grand
Master and many to not get it. As there are many good reasons
to get Magic Mastery and many to not. Its all on how you want
to build your character. I'll admit that since we've added more
paths it might be good to increase the cost of Magic Mastery by
about 5 points for a Mage. If it proves to still be too good
then there is next year's errata. It doesn't appear to be a
problem now, and I don't foresee it becoming a problem (I say as
a person who's only ever played a warrior).
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