DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
Airbattle Games
HTML https://airbattle.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: IGNORE: Wing Leader Playtest Archive
*****************************************************
#Post#: 2736--------------------------------------------------
Re: Malta Spitfires Campaign
By: pilotofficerprune Date: July 6, 2019, 3:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Okay, so we are looking at the following changes to the campaign
order of battle:
Subtract the following:
3x German Bf 109F sqn
1x German Ju 87 sqn
1x German Ju 88 sqn
1x Allied Spitfire sqn
Add the following:
1x Italian SM.79
1x Italian Ju 87
This will allow us to make the following changes to the Origins
countermix:
Delete German Ju 87B sqn, ID ‘R’
Delete German Ju 88 sqn, ID ‘Z’
Add Spanish Nationalist He 51 sqn, IDs ‘J’, ‘K’
I need Pete to update his countersheet roster spreadsheet
accordingly.
#Post#: 2767--------------------------------------------------
Re: Malta Spitfires Campaign
By: Gordon Christie Date: July 13, 2019, 7:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Andrew & I have now completed a second run of the Malta Campaign
We used a reduced fighter OB with 3 fewer 109 squadrons & 1
fewer Spitfire squadron. We allowed the Axis the option of
using other than level bombing where appropriate.
Raid 1:
Target airfield; 3 Ju 88 squadrons, 3 109 squadrons; opposition
was 1 Hurricane, 1 Spitfire squadron: 3 Hurricanes, 1 Ju88 & 1
109 lost; 4 hits on AF
Raid 2:
Target airfield; 2 Ju87 1 109 Jabo 3 109 sweep/ escort
squadrons; opposed by 3 Spitfire squadron; 9 RAF fighters lost
compared to 9 fighters & 2 bombers; 7 hits on the airfield
taking it to heavy damage
Raid 3:
1 Ju88 1 109 Jabo 1 109 escort opposed by single Spitfire
flight; 1 Jabo lost but 9 hits on airfield
RAF starting to have difficulty recycling due to casualties
Raid 4
1 Sm 79 2 Mc 202 opposed by 2 RAF squadrons; 1 bomber & 1
fighter lost No hits on AF
At this point airfield has 16 hits. Overnight recycling sees the
RAF with 2 flights stuck in the recovery box while the Axis are
down 2 bomber squadrons, 1.5 109 squadrons & a Mc202 flight
Day 2 Raid 1
Target port; 2 waves; 1: 2 Ju 87, 3 109 squadrons; 2: 1 Ju 87 1
109 Jabo & 1 109; 3 RAF squadrons & 2 flights opposed. 3 hits on
Welshman; RAF lose 13 fighters (remarkable Axis DRs); LW 3 Ju87
(2 to flak) 5 109s (1 Jabo) lost; airfield recovers 3 hits
Day 2 raid 2
1 Sm 79 squadron & 1.5 Mc202 squadrons against airfield opposed
by 1 Spitfire squadron; 2 fighter losses each side, no hits on
airfield.
Day 2 Raid 3
2 Ju88 squadrons on port supported by 2.5 109 squadrons; 3.5 RAF
fighter squadrons oppose; 5 fighters & 4 bombers lost together
with 8 RAF fighters; 8 hits on Welshman with final DR of 12 from
disrupted Ju 88 making final bombing attack.
Final outcome
RAF lose 35 fighters---> +35 VP
Axis 11 bombers 20 fighters----> -42 VP
Airfield +10 VP
Welshman (11 hits) +14 VP
Final +17 VP for Axis victory (which it felt like)
Thoughts:
Overall worked pretty well. We played the day 2 scenarios in
about 2.5 hours & I think the whole thing could be played in a
single day session FtF.
The campaign mechanics worked well. Recycling worked pretty well
& the effects felt about right. Casualties definitely reduce RAF
recycling & provide the right incentives. Overall it is still
distinctly more bloody than the history but I'm not sure that
can be greatly changed. It is interesting to note that
casualties were relatively low historically compared to the
number of sorties flown in comparison to other campaigns (RAF
lost 5 aircraft in ~240 sorties; Axis 6 or 7 in probably 300
sorties-compared to the Battle of Britain these were relatively
low casualties for a period of more intense operations in good
weather).
The scenarios generated were interestingly different; ranged
form small to relatively large & gave a reasonable degree of
variety. Warning mechanics worked & setup was straightforward.
Flak has been defanged appropriately.
I think the OB could certainly be changed to swap a LW Ju87
squadron for an Italian one & change a Ju88 squadron for a
second Sm 79 squadron. Looking at Pete's spreadsheet I think
ether might still be some ID conflicts for Axis bombers in the
overall OB but I think all could be avoided in play of any
particular scenario & using the greater range of wing display
markers in more than 2 colours with later products should work
without note keeping (I think). Even using blue RAF markers for
Italian squadrons W-X-Y-Z on the Axis wing display would work
for owners of original Victories only.
Suggested changes:
Swap 1 Italian for German Ju87
Swap 1 Ju88 for Sm79
Allow any allowed bombing profile for the Axis (more interesting
decisions about going down into the light flak for greater
bombing effectiveness)
Otherwise happy to give it another go.
Victory levels:
Total losses seem to be coming out fairly balanced. Axis losing
about 2 fighters for 1 bomber; suggests that air to air VP will
favour RAF by 4:3 if exchange rate is equal.
I'd suggest RAF victory would need a 1:1 air to air exchange
ratio (4:3 VP ratio) & no more than any one of heavy damage to
airfield (10 VP) or port (12 VP) or Welshman (14 VP). If losses
are likely to be 20 -30 aircraft each that would suggest an AtA
VP balance of around 32:24 in favour of the RAF. With a median
Axis bombing outcome of 12 a bare RAF win would be +4 VP or so.
I'd suggest VP thresholds of (Axis - RAF)
RAF +4 or less
Draw +5 to +9
Axis +10 or more
There is probably still bit of scope for refinement but I think
the RAF has to get better than 1:1 AtA exchange ratio & shoot
down or disrupt bombers to win. The effects of high fighter
losses & damage to the airfield on recycling give (I think)
appropriate incentives to preserve force & we certainly saw the
RAF start to be impacted by casualties towards the end of day 1
in our campaign which felt right.
Cheers
Gordon
#Post#: 2771--------------------------------------------------
Re: Malta Spitfires Campaign
By: ScottKey Date: July 13, 2019, 3:38 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Scenario: Malta Campaign: Day 1: 11:00
Version: (07/07 booklet)
Playtesters: Scott Key, solitaire
July 13, 2019
Report: - Two waves of Axis a/c: The first wave was a fighter
sweep containing 2 Bf-109 squadrons ( both veteran, 1 W/
experte) and an MC.202 sqn (experte). The second wave consisted
of 2 SM.79 Sqns and an escorting MC.202 Sqn.
- The RAF scrambled two Spitfire Squadrons, one split into 2
flights (veteran, 1 w/ experte).
- Clouds placed by Allies over target at 4. Good alert allowed
the Spitfire flights to set up at 13/12. The full squadron had a
height error and set-up at K9.
- In the first six turns of the game morale rolls were abysmal
on both sides leading to quick loss of cohesion.
- As a rule the RAF allowed axis fighters to escape once broken
whereas axis fighters pursued broken RAF units when at all
feasible.
Turn 1-6: - the MC.202 sqn failed to tally and was issued a RTB
order at turn 6.
- The full Spit sqn had trouble tallying but finally did in turn
A
- The Spitfire flights fought in Lufbery once tallied. One
flight did not become engaged after it was vectored away from
the engagement towards the enemy board edge. It’s pursuer
foolishly dropped tally but then could not make a new tally for
2 turns.
- Both Friedrich Sqns broke ( with 2 & 3 losses respectively)
and one flight of Spits broke (1 straggler).
Turns 7-16: - The SM.79 sqns came on at alt. 4 with an escorting
MC.202 at 6.
- The RTB MC.202 sqn tallied the Spitfire flight below it at the
last moment then caught it 2 turns later. The Spits lost 2 a/c,
the Italians 1 and both sides broke.
- Bombers were never tallied or attacked by the remaining
(disrupted) Spitfire sqn.
- The MC.202 escort tallied the Spitfires as the SM.79s went
under the clouds to enter their bomb runs. He bounced the enemy,
breaking the Spitfire sqn and pursued it, through cloud off the
RAF board edge inflicting 4 losses, breaking his opponent and
only becoming disrupted himself.
- Direct fire Flak broke one SM.79 sqn, disrupted the other and
downed one bomber.
- Level bombing was completely ineffective.
RAF: +6 vp enemy fighters killed; +2 vp enemy bombers killed= +8
AXIS: +6 vp enemy fighters killed; no target damage inflicted
Total: -8+6= -2 thus far.
Recommendations: nothing meaningful at this point.
As a (mostly) solitaire player I would say that this campaign by
it’s nature is a bit less solitaire friendly due to the choices
that have to be made. If time was available a simple flow chart
and table for “randomly” assigning raids to times of day would
be nice. This is something that is easily home-brewed however
and doesn’t get in the way of play.
#Post#: 2777--------------------------------------------------
Re: Malta Spitfires Campaign
By: pilotofficerprune Date: July 14, 2019, 9:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Okay, I’m going to okay allowing Ju 88s the option of glide
bombing. i’ll also adjust the victory levels to those
recommended by Gordon.
Two other changes, following a phone call with Gordon.
Firstly, I’ll drop the M6.1.3 rule that insists the Axis player
must declare a raid on the port. It seems unnecessary when the
Axis player should be unable to win without attacking the port
at some point.
Secondly, we’ll add a rule prohibiting stacking SM.79s and Ju
88s within the same raid, as they did not operate together
historically.
#Post#: 2792--------------------------------------------------
Re: Malta Spitfires Campaign
By: ScottKey Date: July 17, 2019, 3:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Scenario: Malta Campaign: Day 1: 13:00
Version: (07/14 booklet)
Playtesters: Scott Key, solitaire
July 17, 2019
Report: - One wave of Axis a/c: a fighter sweep containing 3
Bf-109 squadrons (2 sweeps at 14 and 10, 1 assigned strafe
orders at alt 3). Three Ju-88 sqns.
- The RAF scrambled two Spitfire Squadrons
- 6 Clouds placed by Allies across the board at 8. Good alert
allowed the Spitfire flights to set up forward at 7 & 4. No
height errors.
- RAF goal was to avoid the sweeps and get at the bombers. This
was only successful as regarded the JABO sqn which ultimately
was a mistake vice going after a JU-88 sqn.
- Flak did not ever roll better than average and my employment
of it was sub-optimal.
Turn 1-3: - the top interceptor sqn was tallied and bounced by
the middle (alt 10) sweep. The Spitfires disrupted. Luftwaffe
succeeds in starting a dogfight.
- The lower interceptors tallied and attacked the Jabos who were
evading. After two rounds of combat both squadrons broke. The
Jabos continued on to their target (Light Flak A).
- After a round of dogfighting the upper interceptor sqn broke
and was allowed to escape.
- At the end of turn 3 no interceptors were left, one sweep was
gone and one was disrupted.
Turns 3-7: - the broken Jabo sqn could not strafe due to ammo
depleted. Barrage attacks against him and against the other
approaching sweep were ineffective. He bombed but because he was
broken it was NE.
- the uppermost sweep squadron dropped in order to strafe the
Light Flak A target. He was disrupted by direct flak and his
strafing attack was ineffective.
- Direct flak broke the sweep whose second strafing attack was
ineffective as a result.
Turns 7-11:- barrage attacks against the Ju-88s only caused 1
straggler on the approaching Ju-88 formation.
- glide bombing by one bomber sqn did 25% damage. The next sqn
did no famage. The final sqn scored another 25% hit for a total
of 20 points of damage adjusted down to 18 (Fatal damage) due to
campaign damage max rule.
Post-Mission: One Spitfire sqn recovered fully; 1 sqn partially
recovered and was split into flights. The RAF has 9 losses in
the box now.
RAF: -4 vp enemy fighters killed; no vp enemy bombers killed= -4
AXIS: +3 vp enemy fighters killed; 18 target damage inflicted to
the airfield for +10 vp (one time)
Total: -4+13= +9 vp this mission
Recommendations: Enjoying this. Mission size was good and
presented several unique challenges for both sides. After going
through the recovery process I think I might have been a little
more generous with my interceptors. However due to experiences I
had in the Rabaul campaign I don’t want to exhaust my
interceptor force before the campaign’s end.
#Post#: 2800--------------------------------------------------
Re: Malta Spitfires Campaign
By: Peter_Wagner Date: July 19, 2019, 8:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Setting this up for the first time to play with Elias and I'm
gathering all the German squadrons and checking their IDs. The
setup calls for 9 Bf 109F squadrons which exhausts the 9
available from Victories (IDs A-I). The setup also calls for two
MC.202 squadrons and their are only two available in the
Victories counter mix (IDs G and H). So we have a conflict of ID
markers like like the conflict with the Ju 88s and SM.79s. Do we
need to add verbiage to explain this conflict like already
exists for the bomber conflict? Or are we banking on the fact
that that players should be able to avoid this conflict?
Pete
#Post#: 2812--------------------------------------------------
Re: Malta Spitfires Campaign
By: pilotofficerprune Date: July 21, 2019, 5:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Ack! I missed this one too. Hmm. . . not sure about how to fix
this one at the moment, but you're right that it's gnarly.
Ideally we'd have no conflicts at all. or we'd identify the
problem early enough that we'd adjust the countermix accordingly
(which in turn would mean some harsh decisions on scenario
content).
Let me sleep on this. But as a fallback plan we certainly could
add a sidebar on the subject and ask the players to deconflict.
#Post#: 2816--------------------------------------------------
Re: Malta Spitfires Campaign
By: ScottKey Date: July 21, 2019, 7:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
It was a bit of a task to deconflict.... luckily most of my
conflicting units are not flying in the same raids together. So
far....
One problem that I am having is with R. I used RST for my 88s,
UWX for my 87s, YV for my SM.79s and Z for the RA 87.
The issue, however is that R is also a 109 flight. So I have
been using an R from Supremacy to distinguish.
#Post#: 2818--------------------------------------------------
Re: Malta Spitfires Campaign
By: pilotofficerprune Date: July 23, 2019, 4:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The Ju 88s should not be a problem in the final game, as I will
be adding Ju 88 squadrons with W, X, Y to the countermix, and
you should then be able to use Ju 87s S, T, U. These should
resolve the deconfliction with the Bf 109Fs, though I appreciate
that you currently don't have those counters to hand and are
having to make do.
Note that there is now a rule to prevent the Axis from using Ju
88s and SM.79s in the same wave, so this should deconflict those
aircraft.
#Post#: 2819--------------------------------------------------
Re: Malta Spitfires Campaign
By: pilotofficerprune Date: July 23, 2019, 4:30 am
---------------------------------------------------------
So the only conflict we have now is that with the MC.202
squadrons and flights and the Bf 109Fs, is that right?
*****************************************************
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page