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#Post#: 1455--------------------------------------------------
Re: O01 Shall We Cancel the Party?
DIR By: Elias Nordling
Date: February 4, 2019, 1:55 pm
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v0.1
Players: Elias Nordling (British), Peter Wagner (Germans)
Before the game started, I was unsure if the British would have
enough forces left to engage the second wave of bombers once
they had engaged the first wave. Thanks to good rolling for
cohesion, it did, but they didn't have much time to engage the
second wave before bombing. Pete put the German veteran in the
Stuka reasoning that the bombing result was what mattered, but
given the result that was probably overkill.
Because I was rusty on early war tactics, I staged my initial
attack poorly and most of my fighters were bounced by reacting
escorts. Surprisingly, that didn't hurt me too badly as I rolled
better on cohesion than he did, and anyway, losses ended up
light for both sides in the scenario. I didn't manage to put
much hurt on the He111:s before they bombed but they mostly
missed anyway. Rather than chasing after the Heinkels after they
had dropped their bombs I climbed to engage the Stukas. There
were a few turns of fighting and maneuvering with not that many
losses and then the Stukas plastered the target. The Ju88 could
as well have broken off now but they chose to push on anyway. In
the remaining fighting my fighters failed to score a significant
number of kills.
The score, as mentioned, was:
Germans: Bombing 36
3 British fighters.
British: 2 Bf109, 2 BF110, 1 He111: 7 points.
Comments: We felt that the British could probably score more,
but that 2x damage to the target was inevitable and 3x damage
not unlikely. I felt the British had little time to engage the
either wave before they got to bomb but I'm not sure I mind
that. the hurry gives the scenario some character. The Hurricane
sets up so off that unless it gets a lucky tally, it risks
missing the fight.
Suggestion: If you want to make the bombing a bit dicier and
easier to disrupt, perhaps making the Stukas flights instead of
squadrons would make a difference. I also thought of changing
the light flak to heavy, but that has the potential of taking
over the game given the staged nature of the German attacks.
Then again, it might make the Germans bomb the Flak, reducing
the hits on the port, and consider circling to coordinate the
attacks, at the risk of the British getting more time to
intervene. Hmm...
Pete can add if he has more comments. We have switched sides and
started over.
#Post#: 1466--------------------------------------------------
Re: O01 Shall We Cancel the Party?
DIR By: Okmed
Date: February 5, 2019, 12:39 pm
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--- Quote from: Elias Nordling link ---
>
> . . . the British can maximize that by accepting the port
gets bombed out and simply VP farm the He111s ignoring the rest.
--- End Quote ---
You are correct, and it's a significant point. VP farming was
Ellen's reply to my good early bombing results, and she came
within one point of forcing a Draw. That's what I get for trying
a cheesy tactic against my own daughter, but it still shows the
Germans have, in effect, two chances to win the scenario.
Killing Stukas is fine, but the VP payoff is low. Going after
the He 111s, though, can be high-yield.
#Post#: 1467--------------------------------------------------
Re: O01 Shall We Cancel the Party?
DIR By: Elias Nordling
Date: February 5, 2019, 1:17 pm
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If you can drop the German bombing VP by 12 by going for the
Stukas, the payoff is big, but then we'd need to make sure this
is viable.
#Post#: 1472--------------------------------------------------
Re: O01 Shall We Cancel the Party?
DIR By: Elias Nordling
Date: February 6, 2019, 1:25 am
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I'm becoming convinced that replacing the Lt AA with heavy AA
would improve the scenario.
#Post#: 1597--------------------------------------------------
Re: O01 Shall We Cancel the Party?
DIR By: pilotofficerprune
Date: February 10, 2019, 2:00 am
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An interesting feature of the AARs is how effective the Heinkels
are when unmolested by flak. So I shall go with Elias’s
suggestion and change the Light to a Heavy flak piece. That
should push the ability of the Heinkels to score big down, or
force attacks to be used on flak suppression.
On scoring, I’m going to commence on the basis that a mean of 30
bombing VPs (2.5 times the Port target) is achievable by the
Germans and that the British will get a net exchange of 4VP. So
that will place the draw window somewhere around 26 VPs. Given
the swinginess that suggests a broad draw window of +24 to
+28.5.
To help the British I shall also:
(a) Slim the Stuka escort down by a squadron.
(b) Start the Stukas and Ju 88s one turn earlier and two columns
further away.
(c) Force the Ju 88s and He 111s to use level bombing.
#Post#: 1600--------------------------------------------------
Re: O01 Shall We Cancel the Party?
DIR By: Elias Nordling
Date: February 10, 2019, 2:44 am
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I think it's already clear that the He111 can't use glide
bombing since the scenario instructions don't allow it. I don't
think starting the second wave one turn earlier and farther away
as the Brits still can't reach them until just before they bomb.
The same turn but two columns right would be better.
#Post#: 1601--------------------------------------------------
Re: O01 Shall We Cancel the Party?
DIR By: pilotofficerprune
Date: February 10, 2019, 2:50 am
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Okay.
#Post#: 1604--------------------------------------------------
Re: O01 Shall We Cancel the Party?
DIR By: Elias Nordling
Date: February 10, 2019, 3:35 am
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v0.2
Players: Elias Nordling (Germans), Peter Wagner (British)
Since the scenario is going to be changed I'll keep the report
brief but the scoring is still relevant:
The British tried a partial VP farming strategy against the
Heinkels, but it failed due to poor rolling. An attempt at one
of the Stuka squadrons also had minimal effect. But the Brits
did better in the fighter duelling, and certainly scored well in
air combat. The Stukas rolled about as poorly as they could, but
the bombs from the Ju88 were still enough to bring the port to
crippling damage.
Score:
Germans 36 pts bombing, 6 British fighters.
Allies: 3 He111, 5 Bf109, 2 Bf110, 1 Ju87: 15
Final score 27
#Post#: 2155--------------------------------------------------
Re: O01 Shall We Cancel the Party?
DIR By: Peter_Wagner
Date: March 20, 2019, 10:22 am
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Elias vs. Pete (GAME #3)
v0.3
Players: Elias Nordling (British), Peter Wagner (Germans)
Elias took the British again and basically ignored the He-111s
and sped his Spitfires off to the right side to get to Stukas as
fast as possible. What resulted was the British downing 2 Stukas
and 4 Ju-88s with all Stuka and Ju-88 squadrons becoming
disrupted before they dropped their bombs. This proved a very
effective tactic for the British.
He-111s were very ineffective in their bombing scoring no hits.
The Stukas managed to score the exact 7 hits they needed to get
the 12 VP, but that was all (Ju-88 missed target as well).
British racked up an impressive 9 kills against German fighters
(some very lucky rolling on their part) while the 109s only
managed to down 5 Brits. Had rolling been more average, it seems
likely to expect roughly equal air kills on both sides (perhaps
with British likely getting a few more than Germans). Flak was
more a cohesion factor than a killer (only took out a British
plane in friendly fire)
The score was:
Germans: Bombing 12; Air Kills 5; Total = 17
British: 5 Bf109, 4 BF110, 2 Stukas, 4 Ju-88s: 21 points.
MASSIVE BRITISH VICTORY
Comments: This definitely felt like a British victory. Their
tactics were good and they were nicely rewarded for their
efforts by keeping the Germans from scoring double VP from port.
Some lucky air combat rolls scored them better than average air
kills so that should not be expected in most games.
Suggestion: The scenario feels good except for the victory
matrix. Currently the germans need a net +29 to win which is
just not feasible. Elias and I both agree that it is VERY
possible for the Germans to score double VP (24 VP) from bombing
but that they should not expect MORE air kill VPs than British.
So if this going to be possible for Germans to win, we should
drop their victory margin to around +18 or more. This way, if
they score double VP, the British can still expect to get enough
air kills to pull it down to a draw. If Germans don't achieve
double VP, then at least it is possible for them to MAYBE get
more air kills than Brits and pull off a victory still.
Best regards,
Pete
#Post#: 2156--------------------------------------------------
Re: O01 Shall We Cancel the Party?
DIR By: pilotofficerprune
Date: March 20, 2019, 11:42 am
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Okay. I'll look over the data again and crunch some numbers on
this, but your suggestion at first blush looks sound.
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