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#Post#: 1688--------------------------------------------------
Re: O03 Warsaw Concerto
DIR By: Markm51
Date: February 12, 2019, 9:16 am
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Yes, shooting down bombers is always more profitable.
#Post#: 1764--------------------------------------------------
Re: O03 Warsaw Concerto
DIR By: Okmed
Date: February 17, 2019, 12:56 am
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--- Quote from: Chris Bryans link ---
>
> 2. Also, change the mission of one of the 109s to sweep.
This will give them more flexibility to respond.
>
--- End Quote ---
One point I've found in these Poland '39 scenarios (as well as
some of the Battle of Britain ones) is that staying on escort
gives the raiding fighters a better chance of being the
attackers in their first clash with the interceptors, if they
can roll successful (not late) reaction. Against squadrons with
rigid doctrine, that's an advantage.
Yes, the counter-move to that is a head-on approach to the
bombers by the interceptors. But the bad modifier for head-on
combat can make it feel like you're half wasting your first
attack on the bombers, risking cohesion hits and using up ammo
for a low payoff. Unless the bombers have "h" protection
ratings. Hooray for tradeoffs and dilemmas. This is getting to
be a long-winded way of saying that escorts also have an
advantage in this scenario.
#Post#: 1765--------------------------------------------------
Re: O03 Warsaw Concerto
DIR By: Okmed
Date: February 17, 2019, 12:57 am
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Warsaw Concerto v0.3: In the German order of battle, "but must
set up at altitude 4 or higher" should be "but must set up at
altitude 5 or higher" if the intention is that they cannot set
up lower than the bombers.
#Post#: 1773--------------------------------------------------
Re: O03 Warsaw Concerto
DIR By: pilotofficerprune
Date: February 17, 2019, 2:00 am
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Oh, that’s a good catch, Dave. I’ll adjust the set-up
accordingly.
#Post#: 2009--------------------------------------------------
Re: O03 Warsaw Concerto
DIR By: Okmed
Date: March 3, 2019, 10:35 pm
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Scenario: O03 Warsaw Concerto
Version: v0.3
Player: Dave Demko
Narrative: Without GCI, the defenders pretty much have to set up
their gambit and play it out, which is fine and historically
appropriate. The Poles used the tactic of flying into the
bombers before tallying them to sneak past the escorts; they do
*not* want to be the defenders in air combat. The Veteran Polish
squadron splits and attacks the Heinkels head-on, with the
Polish flight breaking after its first, ineffectual attack. A
trend of bad luck begins here. A Polish flight take 1 loss and
breaks in its first tangle with the Bf 110s. The Poles attack
some Do-17 on the +3 column, inflict only a straggler, and take
a loss and break. Combat goes on this way, with the Bf 109s also
rolling poorly, but the Polish incapable of killing bombers
despite many hits. The Do-17s bomb the airfield for 5 hits, so
close to heavy damage. The He 111s similarly bomb unmolested by
fighters or flak, with the Veteran bomber squadron rolling 0%
hits. The best the Poles could do was disrupt one squadron each
of Do 17s and He 111 before they bombed. The Bf 110s forces (and
later lost) a dogfight to protect the bombers. Bombing went like
this:
25% = 2 hits on the airfield
10% = 1 hit on the Airfield
25% = 5 hits on the bridge
0% = 0 hits on the bridge
0% = 0 hits on the bridge
The last Polish squadron tried using bounces and turning fights
to harvest kills from the He 111s after their bomb run, once all
German fighters had broken, but ended up losing 1 VP that way.
Victory: Poles 0 VP for kills; Germans 5 VP for kills, 10 VP for
bombing (minor damage on both targets)
net 15 for a close German victory. One downed bomber would have
yielded a draw
Recommendations: The Poles put their main effort against the He
111s, intercepting with the high squadrons and one low flight
once it was too late to bother with the Do 17s. The fighting
seemed touch and go all the way, with no blowout. The victory
conditions matched the play experience, with crummy Polish
shoooting balanced against lousy German bombing. Recommend
keeping the Polish setup as in v0.3 of the scenario. One other
thought, though: If the Germans can choose their own targets, it
could be easier to optimize bombing results and fake out the
Poles. That would add variability but might unbalance the
scenario.
#Post#: 2010--------------------------------------------------
Re: O03 Warsaw Concerto
DIR By: pilotofficerprune
Date: March 4, 2019, 1:35 am
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Doesn't seem as if we need to change this scenario. Are you
prepared to sign off, or do you need another test?
#Post#: 2231--------------------------------------------------
Re: O03 Warsaw Concerto
DIR By: Elias Nordling
Date: March 28, 2019, 4:06 pm
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0.4
So this one was most likely an outlier.
I simply sent the Polish squadrons against the Heinkels and the
flights against the Dorniers. One Polish squadron was in a hurry
getting the job done. In its first head-on combat, it downed 3
bombers, disrupting the bomber squadron, then rolled 2 on
cohesion, eager to go home after having won the war.
The other Poles proved really persistent, outstaying the escorts
by far. Two of the heinkels were disrupted before bombing. the
Germans also rolled well below 7 on average for the bombing,
with only one good bombing roll.
Score:
Germans: Bombing 6 pts, 7 Polish ftrs: 13
Poles: 6 He111, 2 Do17, 1 Bf110: 17,5
Total: -4,5 Massive Polish victory. Felt like one.
Comment: One for the VP statistic I guess. I'd like to try it
again to see a more average result.
#Post#: 2239--------------------------------------------------
Re: O03 Warsaw Concerto
DIR By: Elias Nordling
Date: March 31, 2019, 7:09 am
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0.4
Player: Elias Nordling (Solo)
I choose the same plan as last time, with the Poles splitting up
between the bomber groups. This time the plan was a failure. No
bomber squadron was disrupted, and the Poles shot down two
Heinkels and a Bf109 for 5 fighters and a net draw in the air.
The German bombings were mixed. The Dorniers scored well with
two 50% hits, but the Henkels only scored two 10% hits.
Germans: Bombing 15, 5 ftrs: 20
Poles: 2 H111, 1 Bf109: 5
Total: 15 German victory, felt like one
Comments: The score felt just right. The Poles failed so the
Germans should get a win, but they don't need to succeed much
more to make it a draw, and if they bug out, German strafers can
probably ensure enough bombing hits to guarantee a win on
bombing points.
I think the choice between going for one bomber group or both
with the Poles isn't obvious. There is a real chance for the
Poles to bring the bombing results below 3 hits on both targets
by disrupting a squadron in each group, which would ensure them
a win. If the Poles concentrate on one group, either group makes
sense too.
I think this is a really nice scenario with good replay value,
and the victory levels are just right. I'm happy to sign off on
this one.
#Post#: 2240--------------------------------------------------
Re: O03 Warsaw Concerto
DIR By: Elias Nordling
Date: March 31, 2019, 12:45 pm
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I realized that the He111:s weren't allowed to glide bomb, which
I mistakenly let them do, giving them a net +2 shift on bombing.
In both my games the bombers rolled low and if anything I was a
bit worried that they might have it too easy with average
rolling so my asessment stands.
#Post#: 2242--------------------------------------------------
Re: O03 Warsaw Concerto
DIR By: pilotofficerprune
Date: April 1, 2019, 5:17 am
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Roger that, I've logged the sign-off.
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