DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
Airbattle Games
HTML https://airbattle.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: IGNORE: Wing Leader Playtest Archive
*****************************************************
#Post#: 1520--------------------------------------------------
Re: O04 Bomber Brigade
DIR By: chief2000
Date: February 6, 2019, 4:45 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Scenario: O04 Bomber Brigade
Version: v.0.1 (forgot to check for the update)
Playtesters: Chris Bryans (solo)
Report: This is my third playtest of this scenario.
Turn One: 109E #1 does not tally first Pzl -11 in M3. This Pzl
tallies the 109D in CAP which tallies the first Pzl 23b below.
Combat results: 109D loses two, Pzl loses 0.
Cohesion: 109D breaks. Pzl 23b ok Pzl 11 ok.
Turn two:
109E fails to tally first Pzl 23b.
Victorious Pzl climbs into clouds to await oncoming sweep
aircraft.
Flak attacks in barrage. First Pzl 23 loses one. Cohesion
good. Second attack over target no loss. Cohesion good. Attack
against second Pzl 23 entering zone - one straggler. Cohesion
good
Bomb run first Pzl 23: no effect.
Turn three
109D does not try to tally an aircraft preferring instead to
intercept the oncoming Pzl 37s when they are within range. Pzl
one is in clouds and cannot tally (too many clouds between him
and the other 109D).
Pzl 11 #2 fails tally to 109E. 109E tallies Pzl and dives to
bounce it. failing to tally, the first Pzl moves straight
ahead.
FLak attack against first Pzl 23 fails. Against the second on
the bomb run, nets cohesion roll but the Pzl passes.
Bomb run, second Pzl 23 fails to hit.
Combat - 109E and second Pzl. One Pzl loss. 109E no losses.
Cohesion: Pzl 11 disrupted. 109e ok.
Pzl-11 seeks dogfight but 109E breaks away
Turn four
109E drops tally on Pzl to go after Pzl 37s. Fails to tally
second Pzl 37 so it continues. 109D tallies first Pzl 37. Flak
will switch to direct fire to avoid hitting the 109D. Pzl-11 #2
fails to tally 109D
Pzl 11 #1 tallies 109D.
Flak direct attack against second Pzl 23 leaving target area.
Nets straggler. Cohesion roll is good..
Flak Drect attack aainst first Pzl 37 score no hits. Cannot
attack a second time since it had targeted the second Pzl 23
earlier.
bomb run: first PZL scores 50% of bombs on target (9 hits).
109D vs first PZL 37 no score either side
Cohesion: PZL 37 disrupted. 109D ok
Turn five
109D drops tally against first PZL 37 and fails to tally the
second Pzl 37. Pzl 11 #1 fails to tally 109D under and behind
him. Continues. Second Pzl 11 also fails to tally the 109D.
Second 109E tallies second Pzl 11. 109E #1 fails to tall las Pzl
37. Continues..
Direct fire against first Pzl 37 leaving the target area.
Missed.
Combat: Second 109E and second Pzl 11. Pzl loses one. 109E
lose none.
Cohesion roll: Pzl breaks. 109E disrupted.
Turn six
109D fails tally against last Pzl 37. Me-109 #1 tallies last
Pzl 37. Me-109E #2 fails tally against second Pzl 37. Remaining
Pzl 11 fails tally against Me-109 #2..
Flak barrage against second Pzl 37 which is attacking tanks in
LO. No score.
Bomb run by second Pzl 37 - 10% =1.6 rounds to 2 hits.
Combat Me-109E against last Pzl 37: Pzl loses a straggler
(previous straggler becomes loss)
Cohesion roll: Pzl 37 ok. 109E #1 disrupted.
Turn seven
Pzl 11 #2 failed tally against second 109E. Continues. Second
109E fails tally against last Pzl 37. 109E #1 continues tally
on that aircraft.
Direct fire attack against second Pzl 37. No score. Direct
fire attack against last Pzl 37. One Pzl 37 loss. Cohesion
roll good.
Bomb run last Pzl 37: 10% 1.6 rounds to 2 points damage.
Combat 109E #1 against last Pzl 37. Pzl loses one plus one
straggler. 109e is fine.
Cohesion: Pzl 37 disrupted. 109E is fine.
Turn eight
109E continues tally against last Pzl 37.
Combat - Pzl 37 loses one with one straggler becoming loss.
With max losses the Pzl 37 is removed from the game.
Victory:
Germans: 8 points (3 Pzl 37s, two Pzl 11)
Poles: 5 hits on tanks in KO (3 vp) and 4 hits on tanks in LO
(2 vp). 2 points for two 109D losses = 6 points
8-7=1. German victory
Recommendations: I forgot to check on the version 0.2. The
other Pzl-11 may have helped tie up the 109s which may have cut
back on the bomber losses. The bomb results were fairly good but
the balance could be improved by adding a veteran to the Poles
with the stipulation that it must be added to a bomber flight.
In terms of strategy, had I concentrated my attacks on the first
tank counter I may have doubled my point value but at the most I
would have achieved a draw had I succeeded.
Change all designation in the scenario instructions to flights
instead of squadrons to avoid confusion.
The historical aftermath seems to indicate a victory for the
Poles despite their losses (“considerably successful tactical
action by the enemy”). In game terms, the loss of nine Pzl 37
is the equivalent of 18 points for the Germans while the loss of
both tank counters nets a maximum of 6 points, doubled to 12 for
crippling damage.
Possible fix is to double the point value for the tank
casualties (6 points apiece instead of 3). This would indicate
not only the “crippling tank casualties” you mention but the
shock of the Poles’ effectiveness in the attack. These
suggestions, I think could balance the scenario considerably.
Now it's on to the Netherlands to catch some Flying Fish!
#Post#: 1527--------------------------------------------------
Re: O04 Bomber Brigade
DIR By: pilotofficerprune
Date: February 7, 2019, 2:53 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for that. Looks like I need to crunch the numbers on
bombing on this before the next iteration.
#Post#: 1529--------------------------------------------------
Re: O04 Bomber Brigade
DIR By: pilotofficerprune
Date: February 7, 2019, 3:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I just wanted to check back on the bombing results in scenarios
so far:
Chris 1 - 6 hits total (2 + 4) (3 VPs)
Chris 2 - 4 hits total (2 VPs [Chris listed this as 3 VPs])
Chris 3 - 9 hits total (5 + 4) (5 VPs)
So our net output of VPs from this is 3.3 VPs for bombing. Given
the high value of some of the bombers I agree that the bombing
VP outputs are too low and need to be boosted.
#Post#: 1555--------------------------------------------------
Re: O04 Bomber Brigade
DIR By: ScottKey
Date: February 7, 2019, 3:23 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Should I hold off on this until you decide how you want to
adjust things?
#Post#: 1556--------------------------------------------------
Re: O04 Bomber Brigade
DIR By: pilotofficerprune
Date: February 7, 2019, 4:53 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I think that's best, Scott, yes.
#Post#: 1602--------------------------------------------------
Re: O04 Bomber Brigade
DIR By: pilotofficerprune
Date: February 10, 2019, 3:19 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Okay, so the changes for the next iteration are:
(1) Double the VP outputs for Tanks
(2) Reduce the VP scored for PZL.37 losses from 2 to 1 VP
(3) Clarify Polish doctrine
I’m keeping the victory levels as they are, as the math seems to
indicate these changes will work with the existing victory
thresholds.
#Post#: 1650--------------------------------------------------
Re: O04 Bomber Brigade
DIR By: chief2000
Date: February 10, 2019, 4:56 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks, Lee. I'll test the scenario with these changes.
#Post#: 1729--------------------------------------------------
Re: O04 Bomber Brigade
DIR By: chief2000
Date: February 15, 2019, 10:29 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Scenario: O04 Bomber Brigade
Version: v.0.3
Playtesters: Chris Bryans (solo)
Report: This is my fourth playtest of this scenario.
Turn One: 109D J fails tally on Pzl 23 S
109E M tallies Pzl11 B
Pzl11 M fails tally on Me109E M
Pzl 11 B fails tally on Me109D J
Air Combat: 109E M bounces Pzl11 B. Results: one straggler
Pzl11. No hits scored on 109E M
Cohesion breaks 109E M. Pzl11B is disrupted
Turn two:
Pzl11 A tallies Me109D J
Me109D J tallies Pzl 37 W
Pzl 23 S enters first light flak barrage zone. No hits scored.
It moves into second barrage zone which scores a loss on the Pzl
23 S. Cohesion good
Pzl 23 Y enters first barrage zone. Required cohesion check is
good
Bomb run Pzl 23 S no hits scored
Air combat
109D J vs. Pzl 11 A which has bounced the 109D. Results: One
109D loss; Two Pzl 11 losses
Cohesion breaks Pzl 11 A but 109D J is good
Turn three
109D G tallies Pzl11 M
Pzl 11 M does not tally 109D G
Pzl 11 B tallies 109D G
109D J maintains its tally on Pzl 37W and can concentrate on it
now that the Pzl is broken
Pzl 23 S attacked by light flak barrage leaving the target area:
no hits scored
Pzl 23 Y attacked by barrage as it is over target. No hits
scored. It moves into the second barrage space which also
scores no hits.
Bomb run Pzl 23 Y: no hits scored on target
Air Combat
Me109 D J versus Pzl 37 Y scores one straggler on the Pzl 37
while the Pzl 37 scores no hits on the Me109D J
Cohesion rolls for both: good
Me109D G versus Pzl11 B and M. no hits scored on any
participant
Cohesion breaks Pzl 11 B and disrupts Pzl 11 M. Me109D G
cohesion is good
Me109D G breaks from potential dogfight
Turn four
Me109D G fails tally against Pzl 37W
Pzl 11 M tallies Me109D G
Flak fires direct fire against Pzl37 W: no hits
Bomb run Pzl 37 W no hits
Air combat Me109D J vs. Pzl37 W. Results in one loss for 109D
J
Cohesion roll breaks 109D J but Pzl 37 W is good
Pzl 11m vs. Me109D G scores no hits on either
Cohesion roll disrupts 109D G and breaks Pzl 11 M
Turn five
Me109D J drops tally on Pzl37 W and fails tally on Pzl37 X –
moves straight ahead
109D G also fails tally on Pzl 37 X and also moves straight
ahead
Turn six
Me109E N fails tally on Pzl37 X (this must be an early stealth
bomber since no one can see him)
Me109D G fails tally on Pzl 37 Z – continues straight ahead
Me109D J tallies Pzl 37 X (finally!)
Bomb run Pzl 37X – no hits scored
Air combat (head on) Me109D J versus Pzl 37X yields no hits for
either
Cohesion roll breaks Me109D J but Pzl37X is good
Turn seven
Me109D G fails tally of Pzl37 Z
Bomb run Pzl37 Z results in 10% damage (1.6 rounds to 2 hits. 1
vp doubles to two)
Victory:
Germans: 3 VP (one Pzl 23b, two Pzl 11)
Poles: 4 VP (two Me109D) and 2 vp (target damage)
+1 (Draw)
Recommendations: The new scenario parameters improved the
chances for at least a draw and, had the bombing been slightly
better, a Polish victory. It also better reflects the
historical circumstances of the bomber brigade’s actions on that
day and the piecemeal Luftwaffe response. I don’t recommend any
changes to this one.
#Post#: 1733--------------------------------------------------
Re: O04 Bomber Brigade
DIR By: pilotofficerprune
Date: February 15, 2019, 5:14 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
That's great, Chris. I'm going to review your AAR closely and
see if there's anything else needed for this scenario, but I'd
like you to move on from this one now, so we can let someone
else pick it up and validate the changes.
#Post#: 1744--------------------------------------------------
Re: O04 Bomber Brigade
DIR By: chief2000
Date: February 16, 2019, 9:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
It looks like some of the Spanish Civil War scenarios still need
testing based on your latest spreadsheet. Should I tackle some
of these?
*****************************************************
Page 2 of 6
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page