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#Post#: 988--------------------------------------------------
O04 Bomber Brigade
By: pilotofficerprune Date: January 19, 2019, 4:37 am
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New scenario thread for playtest of Bomber Brigade. Please do
not create a new thread for this scenario.
#Post#: 1344--------------------------------------------------
Re: O04 Bomber Brigade
By: chief2000 Date: January 31, 2019, 1:24 pm
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Scenario: O04 Bomber Brigade
Version: v0.1
Playtesters: Chris Bryans (Solo)
Report: Since the start positions were fairly fixed, there
wasn’t much else to do except for the 109D on CAP to intercept
incoming bombers and for the sweeping Pzls to prevent it from
doing so.
The first combat between the Pzl and the CAP netted no losses
and cohesion rolls kept the flights intact on both sides.
During turn 2 the 109d had broken away from a possible dogfight,
dropped its tally on the Pzl and went after the first Pzl 23b
over the target. Antiaircraft chose direct fire to keep from
hitting the 109 but failed to hit either Pzl 23 as they passed
through/into its zones.
Owing to the wispy clouds the high-flying 109E-1 failed to tally
and had to continue its sweep mission by moving straight ahead.
First Pzl 23 placed 10% of bombs on target. The 109D which
tallied the Pzl 23 failed to score. During this scenario the
Germans seemed to roll low for most everything. In the action
during turn two, one Pzl 11 broke.
The other Pzl 23 failed to hit the target in K0.
In turn 3, the 109D CAP heads for the Pzl 37 bombers ignoring
the second Pzl 11 which tallies it. The second 109D arrived on
the scene but couldn’t tally the loose Pzl. The 109D CAP never
reached the bombers and was broken in combat against the Pzl (a
first!)
In Turn 4 the first Pzl 37 hits K0 with 25% of its load and
knocks down a 109D while the 109D is unable to score.
Turn 5, the second Pzl 11 breaks the second 109D (that’s two for
this little flight!) but attains max losses of 3. The 109Es
above still fail to tally any of what is going on below them by
rolling very low numbers. It may have helped if I assigned the
veteran to the them but I put the vet with the 109D CAP since it
was going to be the first to make contact with the raiders and
needed all the modifiers it could get.
Another Pzl 37 fails to hit the target in turn 6. The last Pzl
37 is disrupted by the second 109 on its way to the target.
In turn 7 that last Pzl 37 places 10% of its bombs on the second
target (L0). Afterwards it is broken in an attack by the 109Es
In turn 8, the 109Es chased the last Pzl 37 attempting to down
more aircraft but succeed only in netting a straggler while
having one of their own disrupted.
Victory: Germans: 3 vp (3 Pzl 11s)
Poles: 3 vp for destroying tanks in K0 (10%=1.6
hits by Pzl 23 round to 2; 25% = 4 hits by Pzl 37) + 2 109Ds = 5
total
Draw (+2)
Recommendations: Although I questioned at first the separation
of the 109Ds, I think that it balanced play much better than if
they were closer. The separation of the radio nets also helped
give the Poles a better shot at protecting their bombers without
the 109Es being able to interfere. Had the Germans rolled
better, it may have been a fairly easy German victory. One
possible adjustment may be to add one more Pzl 11 flight.
Perhaps balance this further by adding another light AA counter
to L0.
Another thought: Not much room for decision making here on the
part of the raider. Possible solution may be to give the Poles
the option of escort or sweep.
#Post#: 1351--------------------------------------------------
Re: O04 Bomber Brigade
By: pilotofficerprune Date: February 1, 2019, 2:48 am
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Great AAR, Chris. Did you feel the fixed set-up made this
scenario run on rails?
I'm intersted that you want to help the Poles by adding another
fighter flight, but then nerf that buff by adding more flak for
the Germans. What were your thoughts behind that?
#Post#: 1361--------------------------------------------------
Re: O04 Bomber Brigade
By: chief2000 Date: February 1, 2019, 8:49 am
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No, I just would like to see the Poles have more flexibility to
choose escort or Sweep. As far as taking away with one hand
what I gave with the other, I am just thinking out loud with my
first run-through. Helps me remember my initial thoughts when
I throw away my handwritten playtest notes. Now if I were to
choose based on one playthrough, I would add another Pzl-11
flight. Again, I would have to playtest it as it is for a
couple more times and see if the Poles just got lucky with good
dice rolls and the Germans just got unlucky with consistently
bad rolls - after all, it was a pretty close run at the end.
#Post#: 1362--------------------------------------------------
Re: O04 Bomber Brigade
By: pilotofficerprune Date: February 1, 2019, 8:58 am
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I haven't allowed an escort because there was simply not the
flexibility or coordination within the Polish system to permit
that. Bomber brigade operations were run independently of the
fighters assigned to the Armies, so my assumption is that the
Armies used their limited fighter resources to either provide
cover for the troops, or sweep in the rough area of bombing
operations.
#Post#: 1376--------------------------------------------------
Re: O04 Bomber Brigade
By: chief2000 Date: February 1, 2019, 10:19 pm
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Scenario: O04 Bomber Brigade
Version: v0.1
Playtesters: Chris Bryans (Solo) – Second playtest
Report: I made no changes to the set up from my first playtest.
I am trying to account for the variability of die rolls in this
one.
In the first combat on turn one, I thought I could have had the
Pzl 11 bounce the 109D that was going after the first Pzl 23 but
noticed that the rule requires at least two mps to be spent in
the sun to qualify. I didn’t think I had that - turned 90% to
dive on the 109D and went through only one square before
entering the space containing the 109. The first combat cost
the Germans one 109 and no loss for the Pzl 11. During the
cohesion roll, the Pzl disrupted – the 109D – ihm ging’s gut –
he was just fine. No dogfight – the 109D refused successfully
and moves into the Pzl 23b’s location once again. No other
tallies.
Turn two – tallies maintained. Closest 109E cannot tally.
The other Pzl 23 failed to hit the target in K0.
First direct fire attack against first Pzl 23b – no hits.
As the Pzl 23 moves over the target, AA hits it and scores a
loss. Cohesion maintained.
Second Pzl 23 also moves into the first eligible AA square and
fails.
Bombs away! 25% on target
In air combat to follow between the CAP 109D and the Pzl 11, the
109s again fail to score and the Pzl score a straggler on the
109D. for the second time, the 109D breaks away from a possible
dogfight to go after the second Pzl 23.
Everyone passes the cohesion roll.
Turn 3: The first 109E tallied the first Pzl 11 but can’t get
there in time to help the first 109D in its combat with the
disrupted Pzl 11. The second 109D failed to tally that Pzl 11
so it is still one against one.
First direct fire – targets the second Pzl 23 before its bomb
run begins and knocks down three of them (boxcars plus
modifiers). This shatters the flight which is removed. I
didn’t have them bomb – should I have and remove them
afterwards? Just for grins, I calculated the bombing anyway but
it didn’t make any difference. No hits.
Second direct fire targets the Pzl 11 and scores one loss
Air combat 109D against disrupted pzl11. 109s score one
straggler, Pzls none. Cohesion breaks the Pzl 11 and disrupts
the 109D. Recall that my first play through saw that very Pzl
11 breaking both 109Ds with only a disruption hurting it.
Turn 4, the first 109E drops its tally against the broken Pzl
and moves toward the approaching Pzl 37s. The second Pzl 11
tallies the disrupted 109D while the first one along with the
109E head towards the 2nd and 3rd Pzl 37.
Flak direct fire nets a loss and straggler on first Pzl 37 over
the target; bomber maintains cohesion. No bombs on target.
Air combat: 109D and second Pzl 11 are both broken. This leaves
the combat area free of Polish fighters while there are three
109 flights to go after the last two Pzl 37s.
In turn 5 the second 109E tallies the second Pzl 37 while the
109D fails to tally the same Pzl 37.
Flak fails to nail the first Pzl 37 leaving the target square or
the second entering it.
Air combat between the 109E and the Pzl 37 nets a disruption for
both.
Turn 6
Second 109D tallies the second Pzl 37.
Flak direct fire against second Pzl 37 leaving the target misses
and so do the bombs.
The second 109D breaks but not without causing a loss to the Pzl
37
Turn 7
Flak direct fire against last Pzl 37 fails
Second 109D attacks last Pzl 37D but no results against either
Turn 8
Last 109E tallies last Pzl 37. 109D maintains tally
Flak direct fire nets one loss, one straggler against Pzl 37
Finally, the second 109E enters the fray but as the bombers
leave the target area, they fail to score while chasing the
bombers for a few squares, succeeding only in disrupting
themselves.
Victory: Germans: 11 vp (4 Pzl 23b, 1 Pzl 11, 2 Pzl 37)
Poles: 3 vp for over half value of tanks in K0
(25%=4 hits by Pzl 23 round to 4) + 2 109Ds = 5 total (same
total as previous test)
German victory (-6)
Recommendations: One more Pzl 11 flight may improve the balance
of this scenario. I’d like to test it.
#Post#: 1377--------------------------------------------------
Re: O04 Bomber Brigade
By: pilotofficerprune Date: February 2, 2019, 12:17 am
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Excellent AAR. Some comments:
(1) MPs spent in the Sun for the purposes of bounce. These can
include MP spent turning or circling while in the Sun, not just
MP moving. (Pete, I reckon this might be a cool thing to include
in the example of play.)
(2) I’m a little unclear from the AAR how the turn 2 flak played
out against the PZL.23. So the squadron took a direct fire
attack, when? Direct fire takes place in the Combat Phase while
barrage takes place in the Movement Phase. The AAR gives the
impression that direct fire was resolved during movement. Did
they also drop into the tanks’ flak zone at altitude 0 to take
barrage fire during movement?
(3) I agree on adding a third fighter sweep flight.
#Post#: 1396--------------------------------------------------
Re: O04 Bomber Brigade
By: chief2000 Date: February 2, 2019, 7:28 am
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Hi Lee!
Sorry for the confusion. The Flak attacks always took place
during the combat phase. Now that I am getting a better grip at
writing AARs, I will separate them from now on into the various
phases to avoid confusion. I probably couldn't read my own
writing. It was always direct fire, not barrage, as with the
first test to avoid hitting the 109s.
Thanks for the clarification about the bounce rules. I should
have given the Pzls a bounce but oh, well. Next time!
Did you see my question about bomber units that reach their loss
level? If flak takes out enough bombers to cause this, do they
still get to bomb or are they taken out immediately?
I saw that we have a new play tester on board. If he isn't
otherwise engaged, perhaps he could also playtest these Polish
scenarios.
Today I give Warsaw Concerto another go.
#Post#: 1403--------------------------------------------------
Re: O04 Bomber Brigade
By: pilotofficerprune Date: February 2, 2019, 11:43 am
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[quote author=Chris Bryans link=topic=88.msg1396#msg1396
date=1549114121]The Flak attacks always took place during the
combat phase.[/quote]
There's no need to write out the phases. Your report just read
as if the direct fire flak was resolved during movement, so I
became confused. Thanks for the clarification.
[quote author=Chris Bryans link=topic=88.msg1396#msg1396
date=1549114121]Did you see my question about bomber units that
reach their loss level? If flak takes out enough bombers to
cause this, do they still get to bomb or are they taken out
immediately?[/quote]
Rule 15.4 in the 25Nov18 second edition rules answers that one
for you:
"If the squadron was eliminated by losses to flak, remove the
Bomb Load marker. No attack takes place."
#Post#: 1437--------------------------------------------------
Re: O04 Bomber Brigade
By: ScottKey Date: February 3, 2019, 7:59 pm
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I think this is next on the menu for me.
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