DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
Airbattle Games
HTML https://airbattle.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: IGNORE: Wing Leader Playtest Archive
*****************************************************
#Post#: 2377--------------------------------------------------
Re: O08 Prague in Flames
By: Elias Nordling Date: May 4, 2019, 2:01 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
V0.3
Player: Elias Nordling (solo)
T1-T4: The left and center Czech fighters climb to a position
above and to the left of the bombers and escorts, well to the
left of the sweep.
The right Czech fighter tries to catch the bomber, but is
intercepted by reacting escorts. 1 Czech fighter lost, both
break.
T5-6: Not great, Broken clouds as Czech fighters pass over.
T7: Czech ftrs tally bombers through the clouds. Sweep starts
returning to base. 2 attacks on bombers, one unopposed.
Unopposed hits jackpot, 3 hits. 3 stragglers, turning to 2 kills
with the previous straggler. 1 fighter also lost. No cohesion
hits. In the other fight, only the Czech lose a fighter, and
break.
T8: Escort fails to tally remaining Czech fighter that gets
another unopposed attack. Sweep plays it safe and tallies the
Broken Czech flight, using it just for maneuver. Both German
fighters are now in the same square as the Czech fighter, but
without having a tally on it. No losses in the combat. Both the
Czech fighter and the bomber takes a cohesion hit.
T9: Only one of the German fighters manages to tally the last,
broken Czech fighter. It gets another kill in the pursuit before
breaking off.
Score:
German: 15 exiting, 4 Czech fighters: 19
Czech: 2 bombers: 4
Total: 15 German victory
Felt like: Czech best case scenario.
Comment: I still think I can improve my Czech play a bit
further, but also the placement of the German sweep. I misplayed
that the sweep could change direction as it is already heading
for home, but that is actually not a Czech advantage as the
sweep can then immediately declare RTB to free itself from the
altitude restriction. I'm thinking that the rear Czech fighter
schoud be hovering above the escorrts and bombers until the
clouds are favourable. Still, I see no way for the Czech to get
the score down to 6 points.
#Post#: 2384--------------------------------------------------
Re: O08 Prague in Flames
By: pilotofficerprune Date: May 5, 2019, 12:27 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
So, shall we kick the stern interceptor up by one altitude level
to alt 7?
#Post#: 2388--------------------------------------------------
Re: O08 Prague in Flames
By: pettr.mojzis@gmail.com Date: May 5, 2019, 1:28 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I am not sure about that. I would rather shift VPs. I don't want
to give impression of some walk in the park battle for Czechs.
Elias, have you tried to climb up with stern interceptor before
attack?
To all testers: Have anybody tried to dogfight with Bf109s
instead of attacking bombers?
#Post#: 2390--------------------------------------------------
Re: O08 Prague in Flames
By: Elias Nordling Date: May 5, 2019, 1:45 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote]I am not sure about that. I would rather shift VPs. I
don't want to give impression of some walk in the park battle
for Czechs.[/quote]
It sure rewards player skill as it is now.
[quote]Elias, have you tried to climb up with stern interceptor
before attack?
[/quote]
I always do. Next time, it will stay there until the bombers
enter the clouds. Probably an escort will tally it and engage
before that, but at least that escort will have to climb to get
there, giving the Czechs a fair fight.
[quote]To all testers: Have anybody tried to dogfight with
Bf109s instead of attacking bombers?[/quote]
Sometimes that's what is what you end up with, but unless you
can get an altitude advantage, the Germans pick the first fight.
A dogfight favors the Czechs, but not enough to bring in a
significant number of points.
#Post#: 2391--------------------------------------------------
Re: O08 Prague in Flames
By: ScottKey Date: May 5, 2019, 8:30 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote]Quote
To all testers: Have anybody tried to dogfight with Bf109s
instead of attacking bombers?
Sometimes that's what is what you end up with, but unless you
can get an altitude advantage, the Germans pick the first fight.
A dogfight favors the Czechs, but not enough to bring in a
significant number of points.[/quote]
I agree with Elias. There have been several dogfights that were
initiated by the Germans but the Czechs never initiated a
dogfight since the stakes are just too high to risk allowing
bombers to continue with less than a maximum effort to disrupt
them.
#Post#: 2392--------------------------------------------------
Re: O08 Prague in Flames
By: pilotofficerprune Date: May 6, 2019, 1:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Petr Mojzis link=topic=84.msg2388#msg2388
date=1557080926]I am not sure about that. I would rather shift
VPs. I don't want to give impression of some walk in the park
battle for Czechs.[/quote]
We seem to have an issue with the Czechs being reluctant to
initiate battle, and there's a danger that we end up with a
scenario that runs 'on-rails' with few optional strategies.
Handing them (or at least one squadron) a small altitude
advantage may help. I'd really like to hear from the testers on
what set-up changes might mitigate this, even partially.
#Post#: 2393--------------------------------------------------
Re: O08 Prague in Flames
By: Elias Nordling Date: May 6, 2019, 1:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote]We seem to have an issue with the Czechs being reluctant
to initiate battle, and there's a danger that we end up with a
scenario that runs 'on-rails' with few optional strategies.
Handing them (or at least one squadron) a small altitude
advantage may help. I'd really like to hear from the testers on
what set-up changes might mitigate this, even partially.[/quote]
I disagree, and I think I agree more with Petr. To say the
Czechs are reluctant is really unfair. I've been made every
attempt I can to catch the bombers. It is just that the sweep
and escorts catch the Czech first, often from avove, which makes
them the attackers, and with the speed advantage, diving vs
climbing advantage, rigid doctrine and possible bounce, we are
looking at +3/+4(+1) combat rolls, something the Czech fighers
are unlikely to recover from.
Since there is a parity in numbers, there is no way the Czech
can hope to tie up the defending fighters to let other fighters
go for the bombers.
What makes the scenario interesting and unusual is that with
good maneuvering and because they have the whole map to work
with, the Czech can actually get an altitude advantage before
being engaged with the German fighters. I don't want you to take
that away from the scenario by setting up the Czech high at
start, because that takes away one of the things that makes it
good.
The German sweep might be bit problematic in that it can
immediately declare returning to base, freeing up its altitude
restriction which makes it harder for the Czech. you could
prohibit that by a special rule, but having a 50/50 chance of
the German sweep not being engaged is also not great as it turns
it into a random factor with a huge balance effect.
I think the Czech should get their determination bonus even when
low/depleted, to give them a slight chance of outstaying the
defending fighters. Other than that, I think it is mostly a VP
issue. I think doubling the VPs to 4 for bombers shot down might
be a good idea.
#Post#: 2394--------------------------------------------------
Re: O08 Prague in Flames
By: pilotofficerprune Date: May 6, 2019, 2:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
So what's your assessment of the victory level changes?
#Post#: 2395--------------------------------------------------
Re: O08 Prague in Flames
By: Elias Nordling Date: May 6, 2019, 3:14 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Obviously, 18 has to be a German victory to prevent a runaway
win, and the Czech would have to get a net VP in combat for a
win. Assuming double VP for bombers and that the Czech would
have to disrupt one bomber squadron and shoot down a bomber
while losing no more than 4 fighters, that would put the Czech
VP level at 15 or thereabouts.
#Post#: 2396--------------------------------------------------
Re: O08 Prague in Flames
By: pilotofficerprune Date: May 6, 2019, 4:07 am
---------------------------------------------------------
So, let’s look at the record so far.
Note that the mean results so far for the six plays are:
13 x unbroken/undisrupted bomber exits (average +13 VPs per
scenario)
4 x disrupted bomber exits (average +2 VPs per scenario)
1 x broken bomber exits (average +0.2 VPs per scenario)
This gives us a grand average of +15.2 VPs for exits so far.
The exchange of aircraft in air combat for the two scenarios is:
Bf 109s shot down: 2 (average +0.3 VPs per scenario)
He 111s shot down: 10 (average +3.3 VPs per scenario)
B-534s shot down: 21 (average +3.5 VPs per scenario)
This means that in air combat the Czechs and Germans are pretty
much cancelling each other out. If we were to double the VPs for
bomber losses, the Czechs would score a mean of +3.4 VPs.
If we set the German victory at +18, then an above-average
performance by the Czechs of +4 would put the Czech victory
level at 14.
*****************************************************
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page