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#Post#: 2303--------------------------------------------------
Re: O09 Slow Them at Any Cost!
By: pilotofficerprune Date: April 13, 2019, 2:35 am
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Let's also try the truck target idea.
#Post#: 2405--------------------------------------------------
Re: O09 Slow Them at Any Cost!
By: pettr.mojzis@gmail.com Date: May 8, 2019, 11:51 am
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I think alternative to that is something like in "Bomber
Brigade" scenario: "Double the VPs scored from bombing Tanks."
The attack against surface targets should feel like desperate
(or gambling action) in this scenario.
#Post#: 2406--------------------------------------------------
Re: O09 Slow Them at Any Cost!
By: Elias Nordling Date: May 8, 2019, 12:55 pm
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The problem with that is, 1 doubled is 2 :-)
#Post#: 2426--------------------------------------------------
Re: O09 Slow Them at Any Cost!
By: Gordon Christie Date: May 16, 2019, 5:00 am
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Slow them at any cost AARs:
We have now run this one 4 times. It is a quick and interesting
little scenario with some challenges for both sides. The Czechs
need to make something of the bombing – which is possible as
their bomber flights can glide bomb and the fighter bombers can
potentially steep angle bomb (although they need to climb
initially to reach their attack point) as well as strafe. The
Germans have to make something of the He – 51s which are
possibly the most dreadful aeroplanes yet encountered in the
system: -))
I have lost my detailed notes for the first scenario run but it
was a tidy Czech victory. The He– 51s failed to make any impact
at all (I think the fighter bombers B-534s essentially ignored
them until they broke…), the Czechs bombed and strafed well
against the trucks scoring maximum victory points and the 109s
were late to the party, and not helped by poor tally rolls,
together with all the cloud for the Czechs to hide in.
For the second run we modified the set up a bit. We took out all
of the cloud except for a layer of wispy cloud from G 2 to N 2,
moved the third B – 534 into S 1 and moved the targets into G 0
(trucks) and each 0 (tanks) to give the 109s a bit more chance
to get involved. Once again the He 51s underperformed, with 2
flights losing 2 aircraft for no kills & breaking swiftly while
the remaining flight failed to tally under the cloud. Alan
Galland led the 109s on an uneventful sweep above the cloud, and
is possibly unaware to this day that there was a Czech Air
Force….
Meanwhile the Czechs bombed and strafed merrily inflicting 4
hits on the trucks for +8 victory points and 2 hits on the tanks
for a single victory point.
Final outcome was zero victory points for the Germans and 11 for
the Czechs for what felt very much like a convincing Czech win.
At this point it was becoming clear that the He 51s were pretty
much completely hopeless so we switched the flights setting up
in E3 and F3 to be Bf 109D-1s and changed the flight setting up
A3 to He51s. We also felt that it would be useful to get some
flak into the same square as the trucks as the Czechs are likely
to largely ignore the tanks, and go for the trucks which, as the
scenario stands, have no flak which makes them a bit more
vulnerable to strafing in particular. We thought the best plan
was to put troops in the same square as the trucks as they
contribute small arms barrage flak in the square. We felt that
including light flak would shift the balance too far in favour
of the Germans.
This made the situation significantly more competitive air to
air for the third run. The Luftwaffe lost only 2 aircraft whilst
the Czechs lost 4 aircraft (1 bomber), including 1 to flak.
Bombing was relatively ineffective with only 2 hits on the
trucks for +4 victory points. Final score was
Germans +5 (air to air kills)
Czechs +6 (two air to air kills, 4 VP for bombing)
This felt considerably more balanced and interesting with both
sides competitive
air to air. Overall we felt this was probably a draw.
We kept with the same setup for run 4. Here Alan Galland was on
fine form shooting down 4 Czech bombers but – rather
unfortunately – being unable to prevent all 4 Bf109s in the
other flight being shot down by the Czech fighters (copies of
Alan’s autobiography “Where have all my wingmen gone?” can still
be obtained second hand..). The Czech fighters didn't bomb and
instead concentrated on going after the German fighters. This
helped a bit, but isn't obviously a killer tactic.
The Czechs were perhaps unlucky as the final bombing all from
the SBs could have made a significant difference if it had been
more than five…
Czechs 3 fighters 4 bombers down; 6 LW fighter losses No bombing
VPs
Solid LW win & felt like it. Attacking fighters doesn’t
obviously advantage Czechs.
In terms of balance I think this one is going to be tight, and a
lot might well depend on bombing roles. By increasing the number
of 109s the air to air action is likely to favour the Germans
but the trucks are pretty vulnerable and I think the Czechs will
usually get +4 VP for the trucks. I think the final score will
usually fall around 0 for the draw. I would be inclined to
suggest subtracting the German victory points from the Czech
victory points with +2 or more being a Czech win and -2 or less
being a German win.
It might be worth a note that the Czech bombers can use glide
bombing as they are flights.
Final suggestions:
Remove all cloud but wispy from G2 to N2
Change German flights in E3, F3 to Bf 109s
Change German flight in A3 to He 51s
Change B-534 from U1 to S1
Move trucks to G0, tanks to H0; add troops in G0
SSR note that Czech bombers can glide bomb & fighter bombers can
steep angle bomb (it’s an interesting scenario for making you
think how best to get the most out of flights with small
bombloads against a soft & lucrative target).
#Post#: 2427--------------------------------------------------
Re: O09 Slow Them at Any Cost!
By: pettr.mojzis@gmail.com Date: May 16, 2019, 7:04 am
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I never thought playtest report could be so fun. Thanks!
I will manage to go through your suggestions during the weekend.
Just one though right now. The historical setup was to be
desperate atrack on the tank column. If anybody can think up
some way to leave there modified tanks it would be great. I also
started to think about the possibility of letting Czechs choose
their target: Tanks harder to hit but closer or trucks easier to
hit but for heavier price of air fighting.
#Post#: 2428--------------------------------------------------
Re: O09 Slow Them at Any Cost!
By: Elias Nordling Date: May 16, 2019, 8:09 am
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[quote]Tanks harder to hit but closer or trucks easier to hit
but for heavier price of air fighting. [/quote]
I like that idea!
#Post#: 2433--------------------------------------------------
Re: O09 Slow Them at Any Cost!
By: pilotofficerprune Date: May 16, 2019, 10:21 am
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So, in Run 3 the score was +1, which you regarded as a draw.
In Run 4 the score was -5, which you took as a Luftwaffe win.
This makes it sound as if the draw window should probably be
around +1 to +3 (or even +4). I wonder whether the Czechs are
going to win this.
Did you add the troops to G0 to give the trucks some flak cover?
#Post#: 2456--------------------------------------------------
Re: O09 Slow Them at Any Cost!
By: pilotofficerprune Date: May 19, 2019, 2:12 am
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[quote author=Petr Mojzis link=topic=83.msg2427#msg2427
date=1558008286]I will manage to go through your suggestions
during the weekend. [/quote]
Petr, unless you say 'no' In the next hour or two, I'm going to
adopt Gordon and Andrew's suggestions.
#Post#: 2465--------------------------------------------------
Re: O09 Slow Them at Any Cost!
By: pettr.mojzis@gmail.com Date: May 19, 2019, 4:38 am
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My take on Gordon's suggestions:
Remove all cloud but wispy from G2 to N2[/I]
Ok, good idea.
[i]Change German flights in E3, F3 to Bf 109s[/I]
[i]Change German flight in A3 to He 51s[/I]
Ok, good idea. Not sure A3 He 51 will have any real role then.
We may put them out completely.
[i]Change B-534 from U1 to S1
[i]Move trucks to G0, tanks to H0; add troops in G0[/I]
I would rather have no troops in the scenario.
My general idea for revision to solve the tanks vs trucks issue
is following. Let's shift all the counters from column J rights
two columns
to the right (insert two blank columns in between trucks and
tanks giving the Czech player incentive to decide which one to
attack).
Dense cloud with the rain is not necessary in this setup. We can
leave just G2-H2 Wispy there just for the purpose of map not
feeling weird.
#Post#: 2466--------------------------------------------------
Re: O09 Slow Them at Any Cost!
By: pilotofficerprune Date: May 19, 2019, 5:24 am
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I'd suggest leaving the tanks in J0 and moving the Trucks left
two spaces, as moving the Tanks right shortens the Czech time to
target considerably. This makes attacking the Trucks more of a
tradeoff.
I suspect we may need to introduce the Troops at some point, if
only to provide flak support for the trucks. But i'll keep them
out for now.
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