DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
Airbattle Games
HTML https://airbattle.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: IGNORE: Wing Leader Playtest Archive
*****************************************************
#Post#: 982--------------------------------------------------
O10 Flying Fish
By: pilotofficerprune Date: January 19, 2019, 4:34 am
---------------------------------------------------------
New scenario thread for playtest of Flying Fish. Please do not
create a new thread for this scenario.
#Post#: 1439--------------------------------------------------
Re: O10 Flying Fish
By: Al Cannamore Date: February 3, 2019, 10:01 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I'm gonna try to solo this one this week.
#Post#: 1573--------------------------------------------------
Re: O10 Flying Fish
By: chief2000 Date: February 8, 2019, 3:45 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Scenario: O10 Flying Fish
Version: v.0.1
Playtesters: Chris Bryans (solo)
Report: This is my first playtest of this scenario.
Set up: There is no indication that the Germans have tactical
flexibility. Was this deliberate? I also assume that the
bombers have no designated target.
He-111 set up states that it sets up one each in N2. There is
only one He-111.
Height error on DXXI #1 pulls its vector from K4 to K6
Turn One:
No tallies
G.I. #1 takes off.
Ju-88 chooses glide bombing of J0 and makes its move
I wonder why the set up has the German player on a sweep mission
on the deck which will lead it through a barrage of flak since
it is too far away to tally and climb.
GCI revector for DXXI #1 fails (rolled 5)
Turn two:
Both DXXIs tally the Ju-88
No other tallies
First barrage against 109E fails
Second barrage against 109E nets one loss as the 109E moves into
the airfield space.
Cohesion roll good.
First barrage against 110 – no loss
Cohesion roll good
Since the second G.I. is taking off this turn, the heavy flak
cannot fire on the Ju-88.
Bombing: Ju-88 rolls boxcars and obliterates the airfield as
well as the max losses attainable for the second G.I. (4)
Combat: Ju-88and two DXXI: Ju-88 takes one loss and one
straggler. DXXIs are fine
Cohesion: Both DXXI are fine. So is the Ju-88 (another 12!)
Turn three
Both DXXI break tally on Ju-88 to go after He-111 and succeed.
Me-109 tallies remaining G.I. which also tallies it in turn
Me-110 fails tally of G.I. and must endure the airfield’s
barrage
Barrage against 110 – no effect, cohesion good
109 moves to space adjacent to airfield and gets hit by barrage
on the way to climbing to intercept the G.I. One loss.
Cohesion disrupts the 109.
Combat G.I vs. 109E: 109 suffers a loss, G.I. 2 stragglers.
Since the 109 has had three losses (one less the max allowed by
the scenario, its turn and speed is reduced from 5 to 4 (between
altitudes 0-11)
Cohesion: G.I. is good; 109 is broken
Both DXXI against He-111: He-111 – one loss, one straggler. No
losses for DXXI
Cohesion disrupts both DXXIs but He-111 is fine
Turn four
DXXIs maintain tally on He-111. Me-110 also tallies a DXIII and
climbs to intercept.
G.I. tallies Ju-88
AA Fire is N/A since it is light and the Heinkels are above the
fire
Bombing: Heinkels roll 9 modified by one (no flak) = 50% (9.5
hits rounded up to 10)
Air combat: G.I. vs. Ju-88 – no losses on either side
Cohesion G.I. is ok but Ju-88 is disrupted
Air combat Two DXXI against He-111 and Me-110
No losses on either side
Cohesion: 110 disrupts, both DXXI are broken and He-111 is fine.
Turn five
Everyone goes home. End of scenario
Victory:
Germans: Max points allowed per airfield achieved 10+10+9 (four
G.I.s and one DXXI)=29
Dutch: 7 (one He-111, one Ju-88, three Me-109E)
29-7=22 (German victory)
Recommendations:
What I liked: This was a fast-paced scenario in which the Dutch
have the opportunity to inflict some damage on the bombers but
with some good bomb scores, the Germans have an easier time
achieving at least a draw. The Germans scored so well in
bombing during this playtest, that it may have skewed the
results. On the surface, the spread of points for victory/draw
are adequate to produce a number of possibilities and not
totally dependent on a die roll or two as it was during this
first playtest. A few more playtests will tell. I liked the
fact that the Dutch were given plenty of veterans and an
experte. When I play it again, I think I will give them all to
the D.XXIs as they will have the best chance to score early.
What could be improved:
1.
flexibility. Was this designed to balance play?
2.
the player may choose.
3.
is only one He-111.
4.
mission on the deck which will lead it through a barrage of flak
since it is too far away to tally and climb. Perhaps a special
rule which will allow them to climb to avoid the flak while not
changing the rest of the sweep parameters. I like the fact that
they aren’t escorting as it would probably imbalance the
scenario significantly against the ability of the Dutch to
successfully intercept the bombers.
#Post#: 1606--------------------------------------------------
Re: O10 Flying Fish
By: pilotofficerprune Date: February 10, 2019, 4:03 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Great AAR. Some quick responses:
1. Yes, the lack of tactical flexibility is to prevent the
Germans overwhelming the Dutch.
2. Where we don’t designate a targets the player can always
choose what to go for.
3. I’ll fix the he 111 set-up
4. I’m not sure I want to add a special rule permitting the
sweeps to climb over the flak. However, I can set them up at
altitude 1 so they are not automatically routed through the
airfield barrage flak.
#Post#: 1639--------------------------------------------------
Re: O10 Flying Fish
By: chief2000 Date: February 10, 2019, 2:16 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks, Lee. However, if the fighters are in altitude one,
aren't they still in the flak zones for light flak unit located
in the first airfield and the heavy flak in the next one?
#Post#: 1648--------------------------------------------------
Re: O10 Flying Fish
By: pilotofficerprune Date: February 10, 2019, 4:51 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
They are, but you're not going to outclimb a heavy flak unit and
you'll have to risk the light flak.
#Post#: 1649--------------------------------------------------
Re: O10 Flying Fish
By: chief2000 Date: February 10, 2019, 4:55 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Right. Just making sure that this was the intent of the
scenario.
#Post#: 1724--------------------------------------------------
Re: O10 Flying Fish
By: chief2000 Date: February 14, 2019, 12:12 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Scenario: O10 Flying Fish
Version: v0.2
Playtesters: Chris Bryans (Solo)
Report: This is my second playtest of this scenario.
Set up: Height error roll on DXXI D and E unsuccessful
Turn One
DXXI D and E fail tally on Ju-88. Me-109E and Me-110C fail
tally against DXXI E
G.I A takes off while both DXXIs move to vector and circle
Ju-88 begins glide bombing profile
Turn two
G.I A tallies He-111
DXXI D and E fail tally against He-111 and continue to circle
109E fails tally of DXXI D
G.I B is taking off
He-111 moves into G.IA which generates a frontal attack
Ju-88 begins bomb run on airfield in J0
109E enters light flak barrage zone. No effect but disrupts
during cohesion roll
109E then enters the second barrage square. No effect and keeps
cohesion
Me-110C enters first light flak square. No effect but also
disrupts during cohesion roll
Ju-88 bombing run nets 25% success (10 hits) and four losses
(max) on G.I B taking off this turn. Note: does the German
player score points on Dutch losses beyond the max or just on
the max losses inflicted?
Air combat head on G.I A vs He-111 = no effect. Cohesion on
both fine.
Turn Three
Me-109E fails tally against G.I
Me110C tallies G.I
Both DXXI tally He-111
Me-109E flies through another barrage square with no effect
Me-110C climbs out of light flak barrage zone to intercept G.I
Heavy flak direct fire against 109E and 110C – no effect for
either squadron
Air combat G.I A vs He-111. G.I loses two. He-111 no effect
but it disrupts on cohesion roll while the G.I breaks.
Turn Four
Me-110C drops tally on G.I and tallies DXXI D
Heavy flak direct fire against Me-110C no effect
Light flak DF against Me-110 and He-111 moving into bomb run
also no effect.
Bomb run He-111 no effect
Air combat Me-110C, He-111 versus both DXXI. No effect on any
participants
Cohesion: Me-10C breaks. DXXI D disrupts and DXXI E is good
Turn Five
109E tally fails against DXXI D
109E enters two heavy flak barrage zones and suffers one loss,
breaks on cohesion.
The two DXXI decide to chase the Heinkels leaving the target
area
Air combat DXXI D.E. vs. He-111. No effect on any participants
and cohesion is also good all around.
Turn six
Broken 109E flies through three heavy flak zones on its way back
to base. No effect in any of the three zones (lucky!)
Victory
Germans: one airfield 10 points plus six G.Is (12 points)= 22
points
Netherlands: one Me-109E (1 point)
German victory (22-1=21 points)
Recommendation: On my first playtest the Ju-88 scored 100% hits
and knocked out more than enough G.Is taking off to remove one
flight completely. On the second playtest, the Ju-88 scored a
mere 25% which was still enough to render the airfield
inoperative (bomb load of 40 - 10 hits) and eliminate the second
G.I flight again. Even with both German fighter squadrons
rendered practically impotent and the He-111 strike a bust,
there was little the Dutch could do to win this one or even
render a draw once the Ju-88 mission was successful. Even if
the Heinkel flight didn’t manage to down two more G.Is (rolling
boxcars), the score still would have been 17 to 1. Thus, if
the Ju-88s succeed in scoring 25% hits, the Germans will
probably win the game under the current scenario conditions.
Some suggestions:
1.
airborne and to intercept the Ju-88 before its bomb run. Cons:
Impacts historical flavor.
2.
credit for aircraft destroyed on the ground. In this last
playtest this would have reduced the Germans points from 22-1 to
14-1, a more acceptable range.
3.
reasonable tally the Ju-88 on turn one.
4.
to fire while aircraft are taking off.
5.
#Post#: 1725--------------------------------------------------
Re: O10 Flying Fish
By: pilotofficerprune Date: February 14, 2019, 3:22 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Good set of recommendations there. I'll review on Saturday.
#Post#: 1755--------------------------------------------------
Re: O10 Flying Fish
By: pilotofficerprune Date: February 16, 2019, 12:41 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Chris, reviewing your AAR I notice you are using the old Ju 88
ADC rather than the second edition one. this would have reduced
your Ju 88 bombing attack results to 4 hits instead of 10, and
only two G.Is lost taking off.
You also mis-calculated the G.I losses as 12 VP instead of 9.
(With the current ADCs each G.I is worth 1.5 VP)
This would have generated a result of 11 German VPs to 1 Dutch
VP, or 10 total. A German Victory, but only just.
This scenario needs to be tested with the most recent ADCs.
Suggested changes to the next iteration:
(1) Increase the threshold for G.I losses from 2 per loss to 4.
That means the Ju 88s will score the following:
25% hit = 1 G.I loss
50% hit = 2 G.I loss
100% hit = 4 G.I loss
(2) Remove the restriction on Dutch flak on take-off but make
the Dutch flights immune to small arms fire to help during
takeoff.
*****************************************************
DIR Next Page