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#Post#: 2066--------------------------------------------------
Re: O15 A Black Day For German Tourists
By: pilotofficerprune Date: March 10, 2019, 5:32 am
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Roger that, Javier, I shall make those changes.
#Post#: 2074--------------------------------------------------
Re: O15 A Black Day For German Tourists
By: Okmed Date: March 10, 2019, 7:54 am
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Scenario: O15 A Black Day for German Tourists
Version: v0.2
Player: Dave Demko (Ellen Demko kibbitzing)
Narrative: Republican plan = make a bee-line for the bombers
both to mess them up before they bomb and to grab the attacking
role and so avoid the Rigid-doctrine shift. Exploit the height
advantage. Nationalist plan: Start tally attempts as early as
possible rather than rely on escort reaction, anticipating
head-on interceptions. Two escorts with the Ju-52s, one with the
He 46C-1s. Initially only one I-15 squadron tallies a bomber,
while two escorts tally the other two Republican squadrons:
advantage Nationalists. The first clashes are one unopposed
attack on the Ju 52s and two pure-fighter engagements, on in
each bomber's square. The Fascists roll well, downing 3 I-15s
for 1 lost He 51 in one engagement; in the other, the I-16s take
a loss and Disrupt. The Ju 52s suffer Straggler + Disruption.
Because of the Republican's poor tally rolls, that's all the
damage the bombers will suffer before they bomb, so 6 VPs for
the Nationalists are now a lock. Knowing that, the I-16s try for
dogfights and get one with the I-16s. This is a departure from
the original plan of flying into the bombers' squares for
auto-tallies if necessary, and dogfighting is not the only
reasonable option here. Both I-15 squadrons pursue bombers,
hoping for relatively easy kills. The next turn, fighting in
broken clouds with no radios, the I-15s attack the low bombers
and break; the Nationalists maintain cohesion. In a big fight,
some I-15s honchos down one Ju 52 and one He 51. They too start
a dogfight; this seems like a good idea, taking the attacking
roll. The dogfights work out so that the I-16s are able to
pursue the Ju 52s, but they get in only one turn of combat
before breaking. By this point the Nationalists are so far ahead
on VPs that when they have the chance, they decide to RTB rather
than attack broken Republican squadrons. The Ratas blow an easy
attack on the Ju 52s and break. All other fighters are broken or
RTB. Game over.
Victory: Nationalists 6 VP for station + 4 VP for kills = 10 VP
Republicans 2 VP for a bomber kill + 2 VP for fighter kills = 4
VP
net +6, clear Nationalist victory (better cohesion rolls while
attacking the Ju 52s could have yielded a draw)
Recommendations: This playing had two key bits of luck, the poor
Republican tally rolls on Turn 2, which left the bombers
unopposed for their bomb runs, and the excellent Nationalist
shooting on that same turn. So the victory seems in keeping with
the two sides' performance. At first I thought this scenario
might be so small and straightforward it would be dry, but it
was fun. Yes, the opening doesn't allow for much variation
because the interceptors must grab their fleeting chance to
shoot at the bombers; cf. Al's concern about the scenario
running on rails. But once they started mixing it up, both sides
had some interesting options. Not quite a recommendation yet,
but something to consider: Move the target two columns right to
give the interceptors more time to engage the bombers. Right now
whether the bombing attacks can be hindered at all is a dicey
question. But this target shift might unbalance the scenario in
favor of the Nationalists.
#Post#: 2079--------------------------------------------------
Re: O15 A Black Day For German Tourists
By: Agm84ssm Date: March 10, 2019, 1:53 pm
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Second test. New cloud configuration and freedom of altitude
change for the Ju52.
I also wanted to try a plan.
In turn 1 there are only maneuvers. The Republicans go for the
fighters leaving aside the bombers. They get 2 tallies on He51
and they approach them.
The nationalists bombers descend under the clouds and their
escorts accompany them. The plan is to ambush the Republican
fighters in the clouds by having 2 He51 with tally over the same
Republican fighter. The plan works and in turn 2 1 squadron of
I15 faces 2 flights of He51 and the nationalists manage to kill
2 Chatos and break the Republican squadron.
The He46s make their attack and get 2 automatic VPs.
On turn 3 the I16 gets tally and descends to attack a He51. The
other 2 He51 repeat their ambush at 1 I15. The combat leaves 1
He51 destroyed but all the squadrons overcome the cohesion and 2
dogfigths are generated in which 1 He51 is lost but the most
important effect is that the squadron of I16 and 2 flights of
national fighters break.
Ju52 bombs and get another 2 VP.
Only 1 squadron of I15 and one flight of He51 are available. The
Chatos fail their tally roll and the He 51 bounces over them.
Surprise, the Republicans manage to shoot down1 He 51 and both
units break down finishing the fight
Final score: +3
Nationalists: 2 I15 = 2 VP. 4 hits on the Station is 4 VP. 6 VP
Republicans: 3 He51. 3 VP
Draw.
The republicans didn’t get any special VP for destroy completely
a flight or kill a Ace
It’s a draw and feel like draw
Suggestions
Delete SSR3
Allow Ju52 to change altitude before they start their bombing
profile.
With this change the battle can go down between the clouds
#Post#: 2090--------------------------------------------------
Re: O15 A Black Day For German Tourists
By: pilotofficerprune Date: March 11, 2019, 8:45 am
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Javier, what are your thoughts on Dave's suggestion to move the
target to the right?
#Post#: 2106--------------------------------------------------
Re: O15 A Black Day For German Tourists
By: Agm84ssm Date: March 13, 2019, 2:22 am
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I don’t like this idea. The scenario isn’t about to shoot down
bombers inbound to target. The scenario is about survival
egressing the target for the nationalists. As I said previously,
the republicans fighters arrived after the bombing runs. I think
it is not necessary to move the target to the right. In fact the
ground target has already been moved to the right
Oberleutnant Herwig Knüppel recorded:
“13 November 1936 was the blackest day for the Jagdstaffel
Eberhardt. We flew in the afternoon as escort for the
Kampfstaffel of Oberleutnant von Moreau, starting out from Ávila
and heading to Madrid. Following the second bombing run, we were
attacked by around 24 low-winged and biplane fighters (Ratas and
“Curtisses”) from above on the eastern border of Madrid at an
altitude of between 1200-1500 metres. It developed into an
exceedingly hard air battle.”
My suggestion is give only 1 VP for unbroken bomber attacking
the ground target . In this way the amount of VP for bombing
will be 2 VP and it vill be marginal to final victory or defeat
#Post#: 2524--------------------------------------------------
Re: O15 A Black Day For German Tourists
By: guest31 Date: May 29, 2019, 12:22 am
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Scenario O15 - A Black Day for German Tourists
Player Art
Solo
Nationalists setup with 2 He51 Flights stacked up above the Ju52
Flight and 1 above the He46 Flight.
Republicans put the I-16 Squadron high and forward and the 2
I-15 Squadrons 1 level below.
Not enough time before the Bombers are over the target - and at
1VP each for bombing not a large contributor to VPs.
So Republican plan is to tangle with the He51's first and break
them then hopefully have something left to pick off the bombers
on their way out - especially the Ju-52s at 2VPs each…
T1
No tallies
All raiders move straight 2 except He46 goes below wispy clouds
Republicans straight on also heading to intercepts
T2
I-16 tallies high He51 while 1 I-15 tallies low He51 and middle
I-15 misses tally
x2 Veteran/Experte He51's Flights BOTH Tally the I-16 squadron
Low He-51 flight fails to tally I-15 above in sun
x2 He51's combine and charge head on the I-16 squadron that
stays to fight
I-15 dives on unalert lower He51
Remaining I-15 circling at Vector hex
I-16 spd 4 no modifiers
He51 spd 2 +1 +1 -1 -1 = 2
I-16 +2 rolls 12! -2 for head on 2 hits
rolls 5 and 5 so both He51 flights take a loss
He-51 -2 col rolls 10 -2+1 = 9 1 hit
rolls 6 so one loss for I-16
I-16 Cohesion -1Loss +1Attack -1NoRadio = -1
Rolls 3 reduced to 2 so 2 disrupts and broken!
He51 Cohesion -1Loss +1Vet -1 No Radio = -1
Both Flights fail and break
That was a fast and furious dogfight and everyone had enough
after it was over and went home...
Advantage Republicans since shootdown 2 and broke 2 for 1
squadron.
I-15 Turning
4 No Mod +3 Roll 6 1 hit - no loss
He 51
3 -1 Flt -1 Rigid = 1 rolls 6 miss on -3
Cohesion
I-15 passed
He51 passed
I-15 tries dogfight - Succeeds
Advantage Republicans since now no Nationalist Fighters are free
to protect the bombers and one I-15 squadron is perfectly
positioned to tally the Ju52 Flight next turn.
T3
Avail I-15 Tallies Ju52 flight
Dogfight Raider wins - moves down into wispy clouds
All the Broken squadrons/Flights turn and RTB
Bombers do their bomb runs
I-15 starts the attack on the Ju52
Turning 4 - 2hits - 2 shootdown
Ju52 1 -1flight - 1hit no effect
I-15/Ju52 pass cohesion
Dogfight I-15 attack
4 no mod
He51 3 -1Flt -1Rigid +3/-3
Both MISS
Cohesion I-15 Disrupted
He51 Breaks
So now all Nationalist Fighters are broke and x2 I-15 squadrons
left - time to hunt bombers
T4
I-15 squadron stays on Ju52
Other I-15 drops tally on broken He51 and tries tally on He46 -
gets it - better to attack He46 at this point
Broken He51 can still shoot back and Ju52 was in the sun
He46 attack
I-15 turn 4 -1disrupted
He46 turn 1 -1 flight
+3/-3 - Miss/Miss
Cohesion I-15 passes/He46 passes
I-15 vs Ju52
4 no mod vs 1 -1 flight +4/-4
Ju52 2 hits 1 straggler
Cohesion I-15 disrupted
Ju52 disrupted
T5
No change in tallies
I-15's stay on their targets
vs Ju-52
+4/-4 2hits straggler shot down
1 I-15 shootdown though
Cohesion I-15 breaks/Ju52 breaks
He46 2hits 1 shootdown
Cohesion I-15 Passes/He46 passes
T6
Just the I-15 vs He46 now
+3 2 hits 1 straggler
Cohesion I-15 breaks
THE END
Nationalists - +2 VP Bomb +2 I-16/15 shootdown = 4 VPs
Republicans 3 Ju52 shootdown = 6 + 2 He51 and 1 He46 = 9
9 - 4 = +5 Republicans win
Shouldn't the Scenario Victory conditions read 'subtract the
Nationalist VPs from the Republican VPs'?
Since everyone starts relatively close things heat up fast.
The initial battle between the He51 Flights and the I-16
squadron was surprising.
With the bomb runs at 1VP only - not worth it to try to break
the bombers early.
Instead, go after the He51's and leverage the I-15/I-16 speed
and turn advantages.
Once the escorts are gone hopefully have time to pick off some
high VP Ju52s.
What is the best Nationalist response to this?
Maybe fly close escort with the bombers instead of peeling off
to dance with the I-15/16 squadrons?
#Post#: 2525--------------------------------------------------
Re: O15 A Black Day For German Tourists
By: guest31 Date: May 29, 2019, 12:23 am
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Here is an I-15 on its attack run versus the He-46's
[attachimg=1]
#Post#: 2526--------------------------------------------------
Re: O15 A Black Day For German Tourists
By: guest31 Date: May 29, 2019, 12:58 am
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And here is a Nationalist He-51 Experte trying to get behind an
I-16
I'll stop now...
[attachimg=1]
#Post#: 2529--------------------------------------------------
Re: O15 A Black Day For German Tourists
By: Al Cannamore Date: May 29, 2019, 11:58 am
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That’s a cool addition to the game. :)
#Post#: 2532--------------------------------------------------
Re: O15 A Black Day For German Tourists
By: chief2000 Date: May 30, 2019, 8:33 am
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Looks like something from IL-2
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