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#Post#: 1626--------------------------------------------------
Re: O19 Chirris Over Brunete
By: pilotofficerprune Date: February 10, 2019, 11:53 am
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So let’s look at the R-Z exit scoring based on stefano’s plays:
Stefano 1 - Unbroken/Broken (total 7 VPs)
Stefano 2 - Unbroken/Broken (total 7 VPs)
Stefano 3 - Disrupted/Disrupted (total 6 VPs)
So you’ve scored an average 6.6 VPs for exits.
The fighter exchange is:
Stefano 1 - Republican 8; Nationalist 9 (Republican net -1 VP)
Stefano 2 - Republican 6; Nationalist 11 (Republican net -5 VP)
Stefano 3 - Republican 0; Nationalist 7 (Republican net -7 VP)
So the Republicans are on an average -4.3 VPs air-to-air
That gives us a mean result of +2.3.
Stefano, your proposal for +3 to +6 for the ‘draw window’ is not
far from the mark. We need some more test, but I think for the
next test we might want to try the following victory levels:
+0 or less - Nationalist Victory
+1 to +3 - Draw
+4 or more - Republican victory
Using this scheme, this would have given you results of:
Stefano 1 - Republican victory (on the basis of a near-even
aircraft exchange)
Stefano 2 - Draw
Stafano 3 - Nationalist Victory (on the basis of a very uneven
aircraft exchange)
I think we need to get someone else to take a look at this now.
Stefano, would you like to move on to a different scenario?
#Post#: 1633--------------------------------------------------
Re: O19 Chirris Over Brunete
By: Agm84ssm Date: February 10, 2019, 1:14 pm
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Very good test from Stefano
I plan to play the scenario 2 or 3 times next week
#Post#: 1635--------------------------------------------------
Re: O19 Chirris Over Brunete
By: pilotofficerprune Date: February 10, 2019, 2:04 pm
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Javier, try it with these victory levels:
+0 or less - Nationalist Victory
+1 to +3 - Draw
+4 or more - Republican victory
#Post#: 1642--------------------------------------------------
Re: O19 Chirris Over Brunete
By: guest26 Date: February 10, 2019, 2:36 pm
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Dear Lee,
I will try to play "Less Truks, More Balls".
I saw that nobody is trying it so I will concentrate on it.
It seems quite simple for the limited number of squadrons
involved, So I hope to be able to give you some AARs
soon.
#Post#: 1646--------------------------------------------------
Re: O19 Chirris Over Brunete
By: pilotofficerprune Date: February 10, 2019, 4:40 pm
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Cool. Look forward to it.
#Post#: 1745--------------------------------------------------
Re: O19 Chirris Over Brunete
By: Agm84ssm Date: February 16, 2019, 9:42 am
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CHIRRIS OVER BRUNETE
V03
The scenario represents the interception of one republican
attack package. The objective of the scenario is to disrupt that
attack package and that they can not influence the land battle.
To reproduce the butchery among RZ that the Nationalists
provoked is really difficult or practically impossible in
terms of the game. It required 4 perfect attacks (+4) with
perfect damage rolls (4 or 5 hits) and with 100% loss rolls
always generating losses. It would have to write a good amount
of special rules. Therefore, the scenario is looking to pose the
players in the situation in order to seek victory but not the
massacre. Victory is broken the RZ.
The opposing formations approach each other. The republicans do
not get any tally. The Nationals get tally on the 2 RZ
squadrons. 1 CR32 attacks head on and knocks down 1 RZ before
the passivity of the escorts. The RZ squadron is Disrupted.
In turn 2 the I16 and the CR32 that fly at level 5 become tally
mutually. The Moscas win the attack position and engage in 2
fights with the planes of the Nationalists Aces. Below, 2 CR32
squadrons gets tally over 1 RZ squadron and prepare to attack
jointly. This time the escort get a delayed reaction and a
multiple combat is generated. At the upper level, The I16s show
their superiority over the Chirri and destroy 4 Nationalists
planes without losing their own.
In the clash around bombers, CR32 and I15 are unscathed. The
bad news is that Morato's flight is Broken and reduced to only
2 Cr32 in flight.
In the turn 3, Morato abandons the fight pursued by an I16 while
the italians manage to force a dogfight with the I16 in the
upper level. The battle around the RZ continues and 2 battles
RZ-CR32-I5 are generated. The Chirri manage to shoot down an
escort I15 and disperded the RZ and leave broken 1 I15
nsquaron. The combats of the Nationalists Aces are epic. The
Morato's fligth loses 1 CR32 more but the attacking I16 is
Broken. Morato moves away from the battle in a solitary plane.
The italian ace manages to knock down 2 I16 and break the
squadron of I16.
Only 1 squadron of I15, 2 squadrons of CR32 and the 2
persistent RZ squadrons remain fliying.
Turn 4 is crucial. The nationals knock down 2 I15 and lose 1
CR32 but do not apply damage to any RZ. All fighters are Broken
minus one squad of CR32. As the RZ are already very far away the
Chirri does tally on one of the squads of I15 that retires and
in the subsequent combat destroys 1 I15.
Final score: +4
Nationalists: 4 I15 + 2 I16 + 2RZ = 8VP.
Republicans: 2 RZ Disrupted = 3 + 3 VP. 6 CR32 = 6VP
Republican victory
The scenario has worked well and has been decided quickly. The
alternatives of victory for both sides have been constant and at
the end the Republican wins the victory for the minimum. The
scenario is demanding but not impossible for the Nationalist. In
reality, the Air Force of the Republic were a very tough enemy
until the middle of 1938
Suggestions
Removing 1 Veteran from the Republicans seems like a good
measure of balance.
The new VP seems to work well balancing options of victory
#Post#: 1746--------------------------------------------------
Re: O19 Chirris Over Brunete
By: Agm84ssm Date: February 16, 2019, 10:26 am
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CHIRRIS OVER BRUNETE
V03
Second test of this scenario ..
The scenario begins in a similar way to the previous one. Only 1
CR32 gets tally over 1 RZ and attacks in head on achieving 1
kill. In turn 2, all the planes minus the I16 that flies higher,
get to tally each other. 2 CR32 attack the RZ while the other 2
CR32 attack the I15s escorts. To that scuffle joins 1 I16. 2
large battles are generated around the RZ with chains of
tallies. The casualties are minimal. 1 I15, 1 I16, 1 RZ and 1
CR32. The squadron of I16 is broken. Turn 3 is a repetition of
the previous one with the continuation of the 2 big battles over
the bombers. The I16 that flies in height is still unable to do
tally and is off the battle. The scuffle ends with 1 I15 shot
down . 3 Nationalists squadrons are broken and the RZ squadron
is dispersed. At the start of turn 4, 1 RZ and his escorts fly
undisturbed to the board's edge while the other bomber formation
is still under attack from the only CR32 squadron in flight. 1
CR32 and 1 I15 fall and all the aircraft participating in the
combat are broken.
Final score: +1
Nationalists: 3 I15 + 1 I16 + 2RZ = 6VP.
Republicans: 1 RZ Disrupted and 1 RZ Broken = 3 + 1 VP. 3 CR32 =
3VP. 7 VP
Draw
The air combat dice rolls have been regularly low and the level
of losses has been minimal. A higher roll in any combat could
have changed everything.
The escort I15 are the dispensables that are sacrificed to
prevent the Chirris from destroying RZ
Suggestions
It is impossible to emulate the historical result but I would
not be obsessed with this. The objective is to break the
bombers. In the historical combat the Nationalists had an
extreme luck with the dice.
If we want to give more opportunities to the Nationalist we
could consider that the Republican I15 deploy the RZ in the
upper table and have a sweep mission instead of an escort. That
would give the Nationalists one turn to attack the bombers
without opposition from the Republican fighters.
However, the interaction between escorts, bombers and attackers
is the key in this scenario
#Post#: 1769--------------------------------------------------
Re: O19 Chirris Over Brunete
By: pilotofficerprune Date: February 17, 2019, 1:49 am
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Javier, it’s certainly difficult to reproduce some battles
exactly. However, I think you’re discovering that the route to a
good scenario, as opposed to an accurate one, is that the
history sometimes has to be compromised.
We have two paths on this one.
(a) On the first hand we have what is shaping up to be a good
scenario which, as you say, is focussed around breaking the
R-Zs. However, we don’t get the historical massacre of the
bombers. (We kinda disguise that in the Aftermath writeup by not
mentioning which aircraft are downed.)
(b) We try to increases the bomber casualties by hampering the
escort. The strategy you outline, of moving the I-15s further
away and making them a sweep, is sound.
I’m at the point where I’m happy to leave this scenario as-is.
It would be interesting to see what would happen if one of the
veteran test teams like Gordon and Andrew picked this one up and
noodled with it. But I’d rather keep a scenario that is
reasonably balanced and has a rich sequence of interactions,
than potentially make it less fun for the sake of the history.
#Post#: 1775--------------------------------------------------
Re: O19 Chirris Over Brunete
By: Agm84ssm Date: February 17, 2019, 5:18 am
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Absolutely agree with you
I’m historycentric and I’m learning a lot about balance.
I like and enjoy the scenario like it is now
My suggestion was not a proposal. I was thinking loud. I like
the interaction and the thrill in each escort reaction roll
Go to BOMBERS FIRST
#Post#: 1778--------------------------------------------------
Re: O19 Chirris Over Brunete
By: pilotofficerprune Date: February 17, 2019, 7:05 am
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I was talking to Gordon earlier today and we both reminisced
about the journey we've been on, learning how to build and
develop scenarios. The process we have now is far different from
the one we began with. At some point we experienced an epiphany
and realised that the quality of the scenario was more important
than the history. Since then we've been prepared to bend the
latter to create the better scenario experience. It seems you're
experiencing the same journey.
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