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#Post#: 2034--------------------------------------------------
Re: O20 A Fine Winter's Day
By: Kevin Date: March 5, 2019, 2:38 pm
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Good one Elias! I wondered about attacking with just one flight
to get the group to turn around and present their tails to the
rest of the hovering 109s who can then get effective bounces.
You're right about the different number of ways to crack an egg.
I haven't tried splitting both 109s as I wanted one to pack a
full punch.
I also planned on a quick sign off but ended up spending three
sittings on this one! It is thought provoking.
#Post#: 2037--------------------------------------------------
Re: O20 A Fine Winter's Day
By: Elias Nordling Date: March 6, 2019, 1:18 pm
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v0.4
Player: Elias Nordling (solo)
This time I tried to put both green markers in the bombers, and
not splitting the Nationalists. The Nationalistsrolled a bit
poorly in combat, but the game was decided by the fact that the
Nationalists were tallied and dogfighted by normal quality
fighters that managed to drag them away from the bombers.
Score:
Nationalists: 2 bombers
Republicans: 1 fighter
final score 3. Republican win. Felt like a republican win.
Comment: Having the bombers green instead of the fighters didn't
hurt the Republicans that much and helped them a lot with tally,
dogfight and cohesion rolls. Since the Republicans don't care if
the bombers get disrupted, the worst you are going to get is a
slight combat handicap when fighting alone against German
fighters, but at the same time reducing the risk of this
happening. I think we need a special rule that the Republican
green markers have to go into the fighters.
#Post#: 2038--------------------------------------------------
Re: O20 A Fine Winter's Day
By: Elias Nordling Date: March 6, 2019, 2:04 pm
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v0.4
Player: Elias Nordling (solo)
This time I played with the Republican green crews in the
fighters and the Nationalists only attacking the leading (tail
after turning) bomber. The idea was to keep as many Republican
fighters out of the fight as possible. In the event, the
Republican fighters get to tally on 5-6, 5-6 and 4-6, and two
fighters still got to tally this time round. The last one was
out of the game as it never had the chance to tally again.
It was a good tactic. It wasn't game breaking, but it might be
the optimal Nationalist tactic. This time, despite two
Republican fighters being in the fight, it was a Nationalist win
thanks to good combat rolls. The Nationalists took down 5
bombers and 4 Republican fighters, for only 1 loss.
Unfortunately for the Nationalists, that loss was Wilhelm
Balthasar as a 2 was rolled for cohesion :-)
Score: 13 Nationalist victory. Felt like: Nationalist victory.
Suggestion: To make the choice for the Nationalists less
obvious, and give them a slight additional point bonus, I
suggest giving them 1 point for each bomber disrupted or worse.
In return, I'd suggest removing special rule 4. I haven't seen
it have effect and anyway the Republicans don't need that help.
#Post#: 2039--------------------------------------------------
Re: O20 A Fine Winter's Day
By: pilotofficerprune Date: March 7, 2019, 2:25 am
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So, the proposals are:
1. Republican Green markers must be assigned to fighters.
2. Drop special rule 4 as superfluous.
3. Reintroduce a small VP bonus for the Nationalists (say, 1 VP)
for each disrupted/broken SB squadron so as to incentivise
spreading attacks on the bombers rather than piling on to the
tail-end-Charlie.
#Post#: 2040--------------------------------------------------
Re: O20 A Fine Winter's Day
By: Elias Nordling Date: March 7, 2019, 3:12 am
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Correct. I'm not sure it's enough though, they won without
utilizing the bonus in the last game. I'll try again to see if
that is the expected result.
#Post#: 2075--------------------------------------------------
Re: O20 A Fine Winter's Day
By: Elias Nordling Date: March 10, 2019, 10:37 am
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v0.5
Player: Elias Nordling (solo)
I tried concentrating on the front bomber again, and this time
it worked perfectly. Only one Republican fighter finally
tallied, and that was by turn 5. The bomber squadron was
entirely wiped out with 8 losses, and it would have been more if
there were more losses to take.
Score:
Nats: 8 bombers, 1 disr, 1 ftr: 18
Reps: 1 ftr: 1
17 Massive nat victory. Felt like massive nationalist victory.
So, for the second game, I tried to change the scenario a little
again, trying to keep it simple. I removed special rule 5, and
had the Republican sweep change direction the turn AFTER the
bombers do. This changed the dynamic of the scenario once again,
and for the better.
The Nationalists now attack the head of the column and then
switch targets as they want to get behind the republican
fighters for their turn 3 tallies. So special rule 5 is no
longer needed. There is also no longer a spot where the
Nationalists can attack more or less safe from republican
fighters, but they still need to roll high to tally and will
intervene in a piecemeal fashion.
In this game, the score was:
Nats: 5 bombers, 1 ftr: 11
Reps: 6 ftrs
Score 5. Rep victory
Felt like draw
I tried it a third time with the same configuration. This time
the Republicans dived below the bombers on turn 2 to avoid turn
3 tallies. It worked, but didn't really provide a long term
benefit as they missed a turn of attacks on the bombers and lost
their altitude advantage. Losses this time were fairly low.
Score:
Nats: 3 bombers
Reps: 2 ftrs
Score: 4 Rep victory
Felt like: draw
Comment: I think the suggested change was good and probably the
final configuration the scenario needs to work. Remove special
rule 5 and have the Republican sweeps treverse one turn after
the bombers. I think the scoring needs to be adjusted downwards
and have provided 2 data points. I'd like to see what others can
do with this scenario configuration. There are lots of ways to
skin this cat.
#Post#: 2086--------------------------------------------------
Re: O20 A Fine Winter's Day
By: pilotofficerprune Date: March 11, 2019, 8:29 am
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So the proposed changes to v0.5 are:
(1) Remove special rule 5 which currently gives the Nats an
incentive to spread themselves amongst the bombers.
(2) Sweep squadrons reverse their direction of sweep the turn
after the bombers commence their return to base.
(3) We need to move the draw window down. On the basis of the
small data set you have provided, we should have a draw window
of, say +4 to +6.
You ready to sign off on this with these changes?
#Post#: 2089--------------------------------------------------
Re: O20 A Fine Winter's Day
By: Elias Nordling Date: March 11, 2019, 8:43 am
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Correct. Yes, I'm ready to sign off this. I might wan to try it
again later to see if I get the same results, but right now I'd
like to see what others get with the setup. I think it needs
more plays just to get more data for the VP levels.
#Post#: 3088--------------------------------------------------
Re: O20 A Fine Winter's Day
By: ScottKey Date: September 11, 2019, 7:57 pm
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Scenario: O20 Fine Winter’s Day
Version: 0.6
Playtesters: Scott Key, solitaire
September 11, 2019
Report: - Needed a short game while watching a sick child. Hope
this puts this into the Finished category.
- Wing Leader was the experte. the top, forward I-16 sqn was not
green.
Turns1-3: - Wing leader immediately tallied the lead SBs. The
I-16s did not tally in the first turn
- In the second turn two I-16s joined the fight. 2 SBs were
downed by this point with another loss in turn 3. The better
I-16 sqn breaks and escapes.
- The lower 109 Sqn broke off with a green I-16 sqn following.
The Condor Legion Sqn breaks.
Turns 4-6: - the green I-16 sqn free moves in pursuit of the 109
experte sqn which is attacking the now trailing SB sqn
- The SB sqn takes another loss and disrupts
- The experte 109 sqn tallies the middle SB unit and moves
forward. Both remaining green I-16 sqns attack.
- The middle SB sqn takes a loss and disrupts
- One I-16 Sqn breaks and escapes. The last I-16 green sqn and
the 109 sqn both disrupt and enter a dogfight
Turn 7-8: - dogfight resolves with the I-16s breaking and the
109s having two losses.
- the Germans attack the trailing SBs once more, downing another
bomber and breaking both units.
Victory: Nationalists
Republicans: -4 vp fighters downed
Nationalists: +3 vp fighters downed, -12 vp bombers downed
Total: +11 vp
Recommendations: -I think my Bf-109B experte Sqn passed the
most cohesion rolls I’ve ever seen. 6 turns of combat in good
order. 8 total turns of combat.
- Interesting, fast scenario. My German rolls were consistently
good so the scenario probably skewed in their favor because of
it. Republican rolls were more average. My guess is this would
normally fall in the draw zone so it seems balanced to me. Not
as swingy really as I initially thought it might be.
- signing off on it.
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