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#Post#: 1123--------------------------------------------------
Re: O20 A Fine Winter's Day
By: Elias Nordling Date: January 23, 2019, 5:31 am
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Sounds fine.
I can see variations of 2 and 3 which are essentially beefing up
the nationalists, reduce the republicans, the scenario designer
might have an opinion on what makes sense, and I'm not sure it's
enough, but it sounds like a good next iteration to try.
#Post#: 1125--------------------------------------------------
Re: O20 A Fine Winter's Day
By: pilotofficerprune Date: January 23, 2019, 5:55 am
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I may need to pen something about this for the Origins thread,
but there may be times that we have to fiddle with the order of
battle to make a scenario balanced. I tend to rationalise it as
either being an outlier the system can't easily replicate, or
that the deleted guys simply never got into the fight for some
reason.
At the end of the day, we need to deliver a challenging and
reasonably balanced experience. I'm prepared to stretch history
to achieve that. It's part of how the sausage gets made.
#Post#: 1127--------------------------------------------------
Re: O20 A Fine Winter's Day
By: Elias Nordling Date: January 23, 2019, 6:03 am
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Agreed, but as a playtester I'm not privy to the sources or what
the designer wants to convey of the situation. For example, if
the situation was defined by the fact that the Germans were
superior despite being outnumbered in this situation, then it's
probably better to tinker with crew quality than with numbers.
Or the other way round.
My gut feeling is that German persistency is going to be the
biggest problem in this scenario, so making both squadrons
veterans will make the biggest difference.
One order of battle question: How many Bf109D flights will there
be in the countermix? With only one veteran I only needed 2
because splitting non veterans with no radios seemed foolish.
With 2 veterans we probably need 4 unless you put a split limit
in the scenario.
#Post#: 1129--------------------------------------------------
Re: O20 A Fine Winter's Day
By: Elias Nordling Date: January 23, 2019, 6:23 am
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I just noticed that from the artwork diiiscussion, the Bf109 B
and D will have different art. I assumed they would be the same
because they share the same ADC, but I can imagine they look a
bit different. Anyway, the question of flights is for the Bf109B
in this scenario.
#Post#: 1134--------------------------------------------------
Re: O20 A Fine Winter's Day
By: pilotofficerprune Date: January 23, 2019, 8:16 am
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Yes, the Bf 109D and Bf 109B counters will look different. I
posted a counter roster at the link below, but I've had to
update that slightly since, based on playtest feedback.
As you will see, the plan is to have four Bf 109B flights.
HTML https://airbattle.createaforum.com/general-discussion/wing-leader-origins-(expansion-3)/?message=797
#Post#: 1304--------------------------------------------------
Re: O20 A Fine Winter's Day
By: Elias Nordling Date: January 28, 2019, 1:30 pm
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v0.2
This time I got something a bit closer to the historical result,
though it took a bit of luck to get there, especially with the
cohesion rolls.
The Nationalists tallied the bombers and split into flights turn
1 while the republican fighters failed to tally. I missed that
the Nationalists were in wing formation so I could have gained
another head-on bounce on turn 1. Turn 2 the Republican fighters
rolled for late reaction. By the end of turn 3, the only fighter
left was a Nationalist flight. Since it now wasn't in a hury, it
took the time to dive out of the sun at its targets for two more
passes before breaking. One bomber was broken, one disrupted,
and 8 bombers shot down for 2 Nationalist fighters lost.
Final score:
Nationalists: 8 bombers = 16
Republicans: Exiting bombers 6 + 3 + 1, 2 fighters shot down: 12
Final score 4
Republican victory
Felt like a Nationalist victory
Comment: I'm not sure if this result was representative or an
outlier, further testing is needed, but the sun placement
definitely helped, and setting up for repeated diving seems to
be the key to victory for the Nationalists. If the balance needs
to be shifted further towards the Nationalists, I'd suggest
adding the fanatic +1 cohesion modifier that you've occasionally
used to negate the radio modifier to the Nationalists.
As for the score, well certainly felt like a Nationalist
victory. I am not sure breaking the cohesion of the fleeing
bombers should have such an impact on the score as it has. Then
again, I kind of like that no special rule is needed to prevent
the bombers from rolling for escape. I had something like 8
passes on the bombers but only the last few were against bombers
that had taken a significant number of hits. Disrupting the
formations is something you want to gain better combat results.
Maybe it is useful for spreading out the attacks between the
bomber squadrons?
If we toyed with removing the Republican points for exiting, I
would say subtract the Republican score from the Nationalist
score, and a positive score of 12 or more would feel like a
Nationalist victory at this stage.
#Post#: 1307--------------------------------------------------
Re: O20 A Fine Winter's Day
By: pilotofficerprune Date: January 28, 2019, 2:44 pm
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I think you're right that exit VP seem really odd for this
scenario, which could just as easily focus on losses. However, I
worry that just incentivises a pile-on to a single bomber
squadron, where I'd prefer it if that didn't happen.
#Post#: 1312--------------------------------------------------
Re: O20 A Fine Winter's Day
By: Elias Nordling Date: January 28, 2019, 3:31 pm
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[quote]I worry that just incentivises a pile-on to a single
bomber squadron, where I'd prefer it if that didn't
happen.[/quote]
I agree this is a potential problem, and the exit points sovles
that, if in a slightly artificial way. Instead of points for
cohesion status, you could have 6 points for a squadron exiting
with no losses, but -2 points for each loss it has taken?
#Post#: 1316--------------------------------------------------
Re: O20 A Fine Winter's Day
By: pilotofficerprune Date: January 29, 2019, 2:11 am
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Yes, that might be a way of managing it.
#Post#: 1381--------------------------------------------------
Re: O20 A Fine Winter's Day
By: pilotofficerprune Date: February 2, 2019, 1:05 am
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Okay, so the changes for the next iteration are:
(1) Add a determination cohesion bonus for the Nats.
(2) The VP bonus for bomber exit is reduced by 2 VP per loss,
incentivising the Nats to distribute their attacks. Disruption
has no effect on this VP scoring.
(3) Adjusted the draw window up by 1 VP.
(4) Added a hard prohibition against rolling for bomber escape,
just in case that becomes A Thing.
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