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#Post#: 972--------------------------------------------------
O20 A Fine Winter's Day
By: pilotofficerprune Date: January 19, 2019, 4:27 am
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New scenario thread for playtest of A Fine Winter's Day. Please
do not create a new thread for this scenario.
#Post#: 1019--------------------------------------------------
Re: O20 A Fine Winter's Day
By: Kevin Date: January 20, 2019, 2:45 am
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Hi, just to confirm is another expansion like Blitz needed to
supply ADCs? I can't find any data cards or mention of the
models in the Which ADC to Use section of Origins or v2
Victories. Thanks!
#Post#: 1021--------------------------------------------------
Re: O20 A Fine Winter's Day
By: pilotofficerprune Date: January 20, 2019, 3:21 am
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Hi Kevin,
To clarify:
(1) The only game you will need to play Origins is Wing Leader:
Victories. (There is an exception in point 4 below.)
(2) If you grab the latest Origins book from dropbox you will
notice the What ADCs Do I Use? section has been updated.
(3) The sharp-eyed will notice that many Origins scenarios use
ADCs that appeared in Blitz. However, these ADCs are also going
to appear in Origins as updated v2.0 data cards, tweaked to
second edition standard. If you download the Blitz ADC file from
the dropbox, this has all the v2.0 data cards. I will eventually
migrate these over to an Origins ADC sheet.
(4) As we are not updating ALL the Blitz ADCs—only those that
needed adjustments-here are exceptions to the rule. The Great
Raid, Sourabaya Johnny and Karelia Suite all require ADC and
counter components from Blitz and have been marked as such. I
judged this was fine for such a small number of scenarios.
(5) If you’re unsure what ADCs to use, your best bet is to
download all the ADC .pdfs from dropbox and refer to those
instead of the printed cards during test.
#Post#: 1048--------------------------------------------------
Re: O20 A Fine Winter's Day
By: Kevin Date: January 20, 2019, 3:11 pm
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Thanks very much, Lee! Sorry for the silly questions!
#Post#: 1109--------------------------------------------------
Re: O20 A Fine Winter's Day
By: Elias Nordling Date: January 22, 2019, 2:48 pm
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V0.1
Player: Elias Nordling (solo)
It may look like I'm picking the smallest scenarios first
because they are easiest, but actually I'm picking those that
require the least amount of substitute counters (Pete and I are
doing O01 PBEM). Besides, I tried smallest first with Eagles and
spent a year struggling with Desperate Improvisation, which
taught me smaller doesn't equal easier :-)
Anyway, this was fairly straightforward and unsubtle. The
turnaround is a nice piece of chrome but it doesn't affect the
scenario much. Giving points for exiting the map edge even
without bomb load is a brilliantly simple solution to the
problem of preventing bombers from using the escape rule.
Balance is another matter. With the current setup, I don't see
the Nationlists gaining anything like the historical result, or
victory on points. There are too many escorts, they have equally
good aircraft, the crew quality difference isn't enough, the
lack of radios mean the Nationalists don't have that much
staying power, and the firepower prevents massive kill ratios.
In my game, I felt the Germans were doing fine. The result was,
if not quite an outlier, probably on the upper part of the
scale. The Germans split their veterans and got head-on attacks
on two bombers on turn 1. On the second turn, the final german
flight was intercepted by escorts while the other two escorts
reacted late but at least brought the odds down (or did they?
The unladen bombers had speed 3 while the escorts had speed 4
reduced to 3 for being rigid defenders. The most effective use
would have been to lead with the bombers and use the fighters as
additional fighter squadron, but I didn't think of that at the
time). The Germans benefitted from being the attacker against
the bombers and getting the rigid bonus, something to keep in
mind for possible adjustments of this rule. Eventually the
escorts were able to lock up the Germans in dogfights. By turn
4, all fighters on both sides were broken. The Germans had
managed to disrupt one bomber.
Final losses were 3 Republican bombers and 4 fighters for 2
German fighters downed. With the Republicans getting 15 points
for exiting bombers, the final score was -7, for a massive
Republican victory. Ignoring the historical result, from the
setup, it felt like a German victory.
Suggestions: Obviously the balance between republican and
nationalist fighters need to be adjusted. If the designer
agrees, reduce the number of republican fighters, or otherwise
add one experte and veteran to the Nationalists and one green to
the republicans. That might not be enough though. My biggest
concern is the staying power of the Nationalists. Even without
escorts at all, I don't see them rack up a significant number of
bomber kills before breaking off due to low ammo and no radios.
And they need to hang around a while if they are to cause
disruptions and significant losses to the bombers.
As is, it is a fairly nondescript bomber interception scenario,
fine but nothing special. If a certain desperation can be added
to the Republican side like the historical outcome suggests, it
will probably be more tense.
#Post#: 1110--------------------------------------------------
Re: O20 A Fine Winter's Day
By: Elias Nordling Date: January 22, 2019, 2:54 pm
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Oh, I forgot:
1) The Nationalist Max losses says Flights/flights, should be
squadrons/flights, obviously.
2) The special rule for the bombers turn around and the rules
for jettisoning bombs leaves a bit of a gray area for exactly
when the bombers jettison their bombs, after the first combat is
resolved or after all combats are resolved. 9.2.1.1 i.sn't
really the problem, it is only the combination with "as soon as"
in special rule 1 of the scenario that the rule becomes
uncertain. I suggest bombers jettison after all combats have
been resolved in this scenario.
#Post#: 1118--------------------------------------------------
Re: O20 A Fine Winter's Day
By: pilotofficerprune Date: January 23, 2019, 2:41 am
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What do you think of shaving down the Republicans by reducing
one or more squadrons to flights, for balance purposes?
#Post#: 1119--------------------------------------------------
Re: O20 A Fine Winter's Day
By: Elias Nordling Date: January 23, 2019, 2:49 am
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V0.1
Player: Elias Nordling (solo)
One more playthrough as written. As expected, the Germans did
worse this time round. This result was probably below average,
but closer to what I expect average to be than the previous
result. There were lots of straggler results but few kills. The
Germans were somewhat unlucky with the tally rolls, and the
escorts reacted effectively. This meant the Germans got only 4
attacks on the bombers, of which only 1 was unprotected by
fighters.
The Germans failed to disrupt any bomber, and only shot down
one, together with a Soviet fighter. Two German fighters were
also shot down (3 of 4 losses were on the last turn). The score
was thus -17, for another massive Republican victory.
Suggestion: In addition to the suggestions from last
playthrough, how about putting the sun at left upper? This will
give the Germans an opportunity of coming out of the sun and
bounce the bombers for a little more oomph. The scenario takes
place in February, so by my count the sun is never higher on the
horizon than 50 or so degrees in Barcelona.
#Post#: 1120--------------------------------------------------
Re: O20 A Fine Winter's Day
By: Elias Nordling Date: January 23, 2019, 2:50 am
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[quote]What do you think of shaving down the Republicans by
reducing one or more squadrons to flights, for balance
purposes?[/quote]
It will absolutely help, but probably won't be enough.
#Post#: 1122--------------------------------------------------
Re: O20 A Fine Winter's Day
By: pilotofficerprune Date: January 23, 2019, 3:04 am
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So, in addition to the Flights/flights errata, the current
change proposals are:
(1) Clarify the special rule on the bombers returning to base,
stating that they commence the return after all combat is
resolved (and therefore cannot jettison bombs earlier).
(2) Reduce the escorts by 1
(3) Give the Nationalists an additional Veteran
(4) Shift the Sun to left upper
Is that it?
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