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#Post#: 186--------------------------------------------------
Re: E04 Schlachtflieger
DIR By: pilotofficerprune
Date: September 21, 2018, 5:46 pm
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I'll keep the 'move targets 2 left' recommendation on file for
the moment. I want a second opinion on that before I commit.
For the next release the only change I want to try is moving the
draw window in the victory conditions.
#Post#: 442--------------------------------------------------
Re: E04 Schlachtflieger
DIR By: Elias Nordling
Date: November 1, 2018, 2:00 pm
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Version 0.6
Player: Elias Nordling (solo)
OK, so this one was a bit of an outlier. And when I say "a bit",
I mean it was totally unbeliavably off the scale. The Germans
were lucky with everything from hit and kill rolls to cohesion,
while most Soviets broke early. The four sweep flights managed
to neutralize no less than 6 Soviet squadrons that were unable
to touch the bombers before they left. Just to put salt in the
wounds, the HS129s shot down two fighters.
The bombing rolls were slightly above average, but since the
first attack neutralized the flak, there wasn't much of that,
and most of the rolls had heavily positive modifiers. A total of
32 bombing or strafing hits were scored, fairly evenly
distributed between the 4 targets.
Score:
German bomb 17x2 + 11 ftrs: 45
Sov: 8 BF109, 1 FW190, 5 Hs129: 14
Total: 31
Massive German victory, and it sure felt like one.
Comments: Well, at least now we know the Germans can win this
one.
#Post#: 444--------------------------------------------------
Re: E04 Schlachtflieger
DIR By: pilotofficerprune
Date: November 1, 2018, 6:31 pm
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Wow.
#Post#: 449--------------------------------------------------
Re: E04 Schlachtflieger
DIR By: Elias Nordling
Date: November 2, 2018, 3:29 pm
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Version 0.6
Player: Elias Nordling (solo)
Played it again. This time, the German fighters had average
staying power, negating 3,5 Soviet squadrons. The bombing
results were also fairly average. The Stukas were a total dud,
scoring only one hit, but this was made up by a FW190 scoring
100% with rockets and guns. In total, the Germans scored 22
bombing hits, somewhat poorly distributed, as circumstances
permitted.
Score:
Score:
German bombing 10x2=20, 8 Sov ftrs: 28
Sov: 2 BF109, 2 FW190, 6 Hs129, 8 Stukas: 18
Final score: 10, German victory with some margin.
It felt like a draw. Some good bombing, but at a terrible cost
in bomber losses.
#Post#: 450--------------------------------------------------
Re: E04 Schlachtflieger
DIR By: pilotofficerprune
Date: November 3, 2018, 5:05 am
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I’m starting to think that the doubling of VPs for ground
targets is a problem, resulting in some VERY swingy outputs.
So I have done a breakdown of results based on: (a) Henschels
worth 1 VP, and (b) no bombing VP doubling. I get the following
results:
Elias 1 = was 33, now 14
Elias 2 = was 0, now 3
Elias 3 = was 10, now 5
Dave 1 = was -6, now 8
Dave 2 = was 10, now -2
Elias 4 = was 31, now 14
Elias 5 = was 10, now 0
This gives us a mean result of 6.
If we, say, make the draw window 5 to 8, this means that we get
the following outputs:
Elias 1 = German victory (perception = German victory)
Elias 2 = Soviet Victory (perception = Soviet Victory)
Elias 3 = Draw (perception draw, but close to German victory)
Dave 1 = Draw (perception = German loss, from heavy casualties)
Dave 2 = Soviet Victory (perception = Germans fought well, maybe
draw?)
Elias 4 = German Victory (perception = German Victory)
Elias 5 = Soviet Victory (perception = Draw)
Even with this set-up we seem to be getting some results where
perception does not match the scores.
So, I’m looking at the following potential changes:
(1) Delete the doubled VP from bombing. It’s really skewing
results.
(2) Change the draw window to +5 to +8
(3) Reduce the Yak-9 interceptors by 1 squadron. (To have shave
down the late killings of Henschels.)
(4) Assign one of the Soviet Veteran markers to the
late-arriving La-FN flight, all of which serves to de-fang the
early Soviet attacks.
This leads to a separate issue that Gordon and I discussed
today. I think that the Hs 129 is underrated on protection and
should be a Protection 5-6. This might change things in this and
the Kuban scenario significantly.
#Post#: 466--------------------------------------------------
Re: E04 Schlachtflieger
DIR By: Elias Nordling
Date: November 4, 2018, 1:00 pm
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Makes sense to me. I believe in one version of the scenario the
Germans had trouble causing bombing damage in proportion to the
swing in losses, but at least in the current version that is no
longer the case, not the least because the HS129s are 1 point
each.
I don't think increasing their protection will have a great
effect in this scenario. For VP farming, the Soviets have the
Stukas as an alternative source. Of course the Germans could try
to get them out of the way quickly, but that would require
bombing the tanks through the clouds, which will reduce their
efficiency, AND potentially waste the best targets for the
Henschel AT guns. I like this bit of decision, by the way.
#Post#: 620--------------------------------------------------
Re: E04 Schlachtflieger
DIR By: Elias Nordling
Date: November 29, 2018, 2:29 am
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V0.7, with revised HS129 rating.
This time round, the German sweep rolled poorly for tally, with
the effect that the first wave of Soviet fighters had an easier
time getting through than later arrivals. As a result, some
bombers were hit early without fighter protection, with one
Stuka squadron and one Henschel squadron suffering as a result.
The bombings were fairly successful except for the one stuka
that was broken, a total of 27 bombing hits were scored, for 14
points.
6 Soviet fighters were lost. the Germans lost 3 Bf109, 1 FW190,
6 Hs129, 2 Ju87.
Final score was 8, a draw. It also felt like a draw, the Germans
had a successful bombing run, but suffered too many losses in
air combat.
Comments: The increased protection helps the HS129s a bit, the 6
losses were mostly to the P39 (3 firepower including experte)
rolling hot.
With the removal of one soviet squadron, there is now more or
less no one left to attack the FW190s, that can go in and
barrage with their rockets unpunished. This is a bit of a
problem.
#Post#: 622--------------------------------------------------
Re: E04 Schlachtflieger
DIR By: pilotofficerprune
Date: November 29, 2018, 4:56 am
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Do we need to put that squadron back in?
#Post#: 623--------------------------------------------------
Re: E04 Schlachtflieger
DIR By: Elias Nordling
Date: November 29, 2018, 5:10 am
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I think the scenario worked fine with it in. It is not usually
part of the mob bashing the HS129s, but going for the FW190:s.
You have few turns to stop them.
#Post#: 624--------------------------------------------------
Re: E04 Schlachtflieger
DIR By: pilotofficerprune
Date: November 29, 2018, 7:51 am
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Okay, I'll restore the extra Yak squadron.
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