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#Post#: 2309--------------------------------------------------
Re: O23 Operation Sunrise
DIR By: Rick McKown
Date: April 15, 2019, 12:39 am
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Scenario: O23 Operation Sunrise
Version: v0.4
Playtesters: Solo
Report:
My first attempt at this scenario. I used the Spitfires to
tally the Germans, used Tac Flex ability to split the Veteran
squadron with the Experte (didn't split the other two squadrons
as they were already weak due to Drop Tanks & Fuel Limits),
intending to follow the Germans in when they went for the
bombers and to try to tie them up in dogfights (in spite of the
Drop Tanks negating the Spitfires usual advantage in turning
fights). In these combats the Germans lost five aircraft, the
Brits four fighters (both sides were rolling rather poorly). The
Hampdens took only one loss (to flak) and scored 6 VPs for their
bombing. The Wellingtons lost three in total, two to the German
fighters on their tail and one to flak (actually two Stragglers
converting to a Loss). The tail-end Wellington squadron broke in
combat the turn before it would have encountered the flak, so it
jettisoned its bombs and turned around to RTB; the trailing
German squadron, Veteran with an Experte and still unhurt,
decided to harvest some more easy VPs from the broken bombers
rather than enter the flak after the next in line, but the dice
betrayed them - they inflicted no more damage on the broken
bombers and themselves rolled snake-eyes on their cohesion! The
other three Wellington squadrons suffered one Loss and two
Stragglers (separate squadrons) to the flak, with one squadron
disrupted the turn it dropped its bombs and a second squadron
the turn after it had bombed, so the Wellingtons chalked up 7
VPs for their bombing. The flak was rolling very much
"mid-range" (mostly 6-8) so impact was not severe.
Victory:
British side: 13 VPs for bombing + 5 VPs for Germans fighters =
18 VPs
German side: 4 VPs for British fighters + 8 VPs for British
bombers = 12 VPs
Total: 12 - 18 = -6 VPs for a very solid British win
The British were rather lucky - the generally dismal air combat
rolls (below average) on both sides favoured their survival -
the Spitfires lasted much longer than I had expected, although
by the end of Turn 7 all the Spitfires had broken and headed
home, while the two average German squadrons were still on the
map (although each had 1 Loss, was Disrupted, and had Ammo
Depletion - i.e., on their last legs and neither accomplished
anything in the last three turns before the final shot was
fired). Not sure that having Tac Flex really added a lot to the
British side but having two Veteran flights was probably worth
it - the Spitfires basically have the deck stacked against them
with the Drop Tanks, Fuel Limits, and facing mostly Bf 109F2s
with Edge and with average die rolls in air combat the outcome
of the scenario would likely have been closer to the earlier
reports.
Recommendations:
Given the situation I decided to have the broken Wellington
squadron RTB; per SSR #3 there is no incentive to keep them
going into the flak - they earn the British player no VPs for
bombing and each loss earns 2 VPs for the Germans. Not sure how
historical that would be. The thought did occur to me that I
would have acted differently if the VP awards were, say, 4 VPs
for bombing, reduced to 2 VPs if Disrupted, 1 VP if Broken,
since every VP might count. The extra bombing VPs would have
been gravy in my game, but in those earlier games they might
have helped balance the game.
I felt that the "close-in" starting positions, which made
tallies very likely on Turn 1 (two Spitfire squadrons and the Bf
109E flight all tallied on Turn 1 of my game, allowing the
Veteran Spitfire squadron to split), didn't give as much
opportunity for the attacker to jockey for position. Personally
I'd like to move everything "back" by one turn (adding another
five squares separation), although I suspect that would be more
to the advantage of the German player since the German planes
would have the flex to grab some more altitude before the scrap
starts.
Anyway, will take another crack at this after we get back from
our holidays at the end of May (don't think I'll have a chance
before we leave on Thursday).
Ciao,
Rick
#Post#: 2311--------------------------------------------------
Re: O23 Operation Sunrise
DIR By: pilotofficerprune
Date: April 17, 2019, 3:21 am
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Okay, let's do a quick VP breakdown based on the plays so far:
Bombing VPs: 13 + 13 + 13 = 13 mean value
British air combat victories (VPs): 3 + 12 + 5 = 6.7 mean value
German air combat victories (VPs): 32 + 40 + 12 = 28 mean value
This means that the mean VP outputs so far are:
British: 19.7 VPs
German: 28 VPs
This gives us a net 8 VPs, which is very much the British
Victory column. It suggests that to get German victories we need
to drop the draw window, possibly to +7 to +10.
#Post#: 2490--------------------------------------------------
Re: O23 Operation Sunrise
DIR By: ScottKey
Date: May 22, 2019, 3:53 pm
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I played Operation Sunrise today and it was a bomber massacre! A
quick double check and it seems I didn’t do anything
terribly wrong but before I post a full report does this seem
possible:
RAF: -3 vp for 109s killed, -11 for bombing: -14 vp
LuftWaffe= +4 for Spits killed, +26 for bombers killed: +30 vp
Net: +16 Luftwaffe victory
(Edit: Ok I reversed the victory conditions so ignore the above,
posting this anyway)
#Post#: 2491--------------------------------------------------
Re: O23 Operation Sunrise
DIR By: ScottKey
Date: May 22, 2019, 3:55 pm
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So obviously this seems to be within the realm of possibilty,
there were LOTS of 12s rolled so take it with a grain of salt.
Real report to follow
SK
#Post#: 2493--------------------------------------------------
Re: O23 Operation Sunrise
DIR By: ScottKey
Date: May 22, 2019, 7:46 pm
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Scenario: Operation Sunrise- First play
Version: 0.6
Playtesters: Scott Key, solitaire
May 22, 2019
Report: RAF veteran/experte assigned to leading escort which
flies close escort for the lead Hampdens. The other two Spitfire
squadrons follow at K10 and I10 (green). One veteran counter and
experte counter assigned to the turn 2 Me-109 reinforcement. The
German strategy here is to build up a big tally of downed
bombers and not worry too much about preventing bombing.
Turn 1:-109 experte flight bounces leading Hampdens, late
reaction by escorts. 1 Spitfire is downed. RAF fail to start a
dogfight.
Turn 2: -The fight around the lead Hampdens continues, 1 bomber
is lost.
- A Me-109 sqn swoops in from under and behind and attacks the
trailing Hampden sqn. Spitfires late react. 1 109 is downed and
another straggles.
- The experte flight and RAF experte sqn start a dogfight.
- Barrage fire is placed.
Turn 3: - RAF move the dogfight down and to the left
- Barrage fire inflicts one straggler on the leading Hampdens.
- Dogfight results in two Spitfires downed. Both sides break and
escape.
- The fight around the trailing Hampdens leavs the 109s
disrupted and the Spitfires broken (they are allowed to escape).
- The middle Luftwaffe interceptor squadron, which has been
circling, ignoring the Hampdens, is vectored just above the the
path of the Wellingtons
Turn 4: - Barrage flak causes a net loss against the leading
Hampden sqn.
- bombing inflicts -3 vp
- The reinforcing 109s attack the trailing Wellingtons downing
two.
- The vectored interceptor sqn attacks the lead Wellingtons but
is late reacted by green escorts. No losses.
- The 109 previously attacking the Hampdens flies above the flak
for this turn.
- The green escorts manage to draw the 109 interceptors into a
dogfight.
Turn 5:- The dogfight is again moved by the RAF, down and to the
left.
- Barrage flak: downs one Hampden from the trailing Sqn. The
interceptors are unaffected.
- Bombing inflicts -1 vp
- The leading Hampdens are bounced by the last fresh Friedrich
sqn. 1 109 is downed.
- The trailing Hampdens are again attacked by their pursuers
both squadrons break.
- The trailing Wellingtons lose a plane
- The dogfight results in a downed Spitfire and a disrupted 109
sqn.
Turn 6: - the Brits move the dogfight down and to the left,
again. The Wellingtons leave them behind.
- Direct flak attacks the leading Wellingtons causing a passed
Cohesion check.
- The reinforcement interceptor sqn changes his tally to the
trailing/middle Wellington sqn and downs a bomber.
- The dogfight ends with one downed 109 and both squadrons
breaking and escaping. All the RAF fighters are now gone.
- Nearing (but still a move and a half away from) the right edge
of the board the lead Hampdens lose another plane to their
attackers.
Turn 7: - Direct flak inflicts a straggler on the leading middle
Wellington sqn
- The leading Hampdens take their last (ineffective) attacks
from the 109s before the interceptors break.
- The Wellingtons take 2 more losses from the 109 reinforcement
sqn who breaks and exits
Turn 8: -direct flak inflicts a loss on the leading Wellington
sqn and a straggler (for a net loss) on the second Wellington
sqn.
- Bombing inflicts -6 vp
Turn 9: -Direct flak inflicts a loss on the already ragged third
Wellington sqn causing it disrupt. The last sqn fails a flak
induced cohesion roll and breaks.
- Bombing inflicts -1 vp
Victory: Luftwaffe
RAF: -3 vp from fighters killed, -11 vp from bombing: -14 vp
Luftwaffe: +4 vp from Spitfires downed, +26 vp from Bombers
downed (6 from Hampdens/20 from Wellingtons): +30 vp
Total: +16 vp
Recommendations:
- Overall this is an exciting mid-war scenario that is
startling in it’s brutality. I am tempted to say it’s good
enough as is.
- I should probably play this again with the RAF splitting at
least two of their squadrons and the Luftwaffe doing the same.
- If anything I might tone down the Luftwaffe’s qualitative
superiority by eliminating either a veteran or an experte
counter. However I think I like it as is.
#Post#: 2494--------------------------------------------------
Re: O23 Operation Sunrise
DIR By: pilotofficerprune
Date: May 23, 2019, 2:21 am
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So, I'm seeing a LOT of flak losses in this. The breakdown of
losses is:
Spitfires to air combat - 4
Bombers to air combat - 8
Bombers to flak - 5
So my first thought is to de-tune the flak. Two Heavy flak As
might be a bit much. I am considering de-tuning to a single
Heavy Flak B.
#Post#: 2495--------------------------------------------------
Re: O23 Operation Sunrise
DIR By: ScottKey
Date: May 23, 2019, 8:07 am
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I certainly saw a lot, that’s for sure...
I think it’s a better way to moderate British losses than what
I suggested.
#Post#: 2497--------------------------------------------------
Re: O23 Operation Sunrise
DIR By: guest31
Date: May 24, 2019, 9:34 pm
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Late to the party and relatively new to Wing Leader (although
wargamer for decades)
Played Operation Sunrise Solo:
Turn1
British lead Spitfire sqd tallies Bf109 lead flight - splits and
sends 1 flight
Bf109 sqd tallies lead Hampden but stays together and sets up
for head on attack next turn.
1 Spitfire shotdown but Bf109 Flight broken.
Turn 2
Only new tally is Spitfire flt from before tallies attacking
Bf109 sqd
Bf109 sqd attacks lead Hampden but Spitfire flt joins the fray
1 Hampden shotdown and Spitfire flt breaks
Turn 3
1st Bf 109 follows lead Hampden and gets late reaction from
Spitfire escort so all in the same hex
2nd Bf109 tallies 2nd Hampden tries to attack but escorts (sqd
and flt) successfully stop short
Lead bomber in flak zone w/Spitfire/Bf109 - Flak gets one
Hampden and now squadron disrupted
Air combat 1 hit no damage but German sqd disrupted
Intercepted other German sqd - 1 Bf 109 shotdown but Spitfire
flight finally broken and Spitfire green sqd disrupted
Turn 4
2 Spitfire sqds left
Drop tally on Bf109 and tally above in sun Bf109 squadron
heading for the Wellingtons to fly out of flak
4 Bf109 sqds - 2 stay on the Hampdens and the other 2 try to
shift GCI for Wellingtons
Fight in Flak 2 British bombers, Spitfire and one Bf109 sqd
Hampdens keep going but green Spitfire sqd broken
Turn 5
2 Bomb Runs get 6VPs
Another bomber shotdown leaving
Bf109s shift to Wellingtons - last remaining Spitfire sqd
follows
Swirling combat around lead Wellington - only Spitfire sqd
disrupted
Spitfire dogfight attempt fails
Turn 6
Spitfire stays on Bf109 squadron attacking bombers
Remaining Bf109 sqds target 2nd Wellington
lead well attacked from behind w/spit support
2nd well out of sun and head on
2 spits shotdown and sqd breaks - no fighters left
Turn 7
Wellingtons begin bomb run
Bf109s pursue from behind
1 Wellington shotdown by flak
1 straggler from Bf109 attack
Turn 8
Shift tally to following bombers
Bf109s circle and waits for them
Flak breaks 2 Bf109s up front!
Another sqd breaks in combat and 1 bomber shotdown
Turn 9
Last 2 Wellingtons start their bomb run
Bf109 shifts tally to returning Wellington for a head on attack
But flak breaks Bf109 before it can attack Wellingtons
Flak gets 1 departing Wellington
Turn 10
Last 2 Wellingtons brave flak on return - they make it through
Final:
British - 16pts bombing + 1 Bf109 shootdown = 17 (4 straggler
bombers)
Germans - 4 Hampdens and 2 Wellingtons and 4 Spitfires = 16
Main lesson learned - stay out of Flak if at all possible.
I focused on disrupting/breaking the bombers BEFORE their bomb
runs - hence I took the chance of following them thru the Flak
right up to their bomb release - bad idea especially at the end
when the Flak broke 3 Bf109 squadrons. Should have waited until
after they returned and harried them on their way back. Overall
the bombers got good defense rolls.
First group of Bf109's try to strip the escorts since they are
at the end of their fuel/limits, then they and the second group
go after the Wellingtons before Flak then harry them on the way
out. There were 4 Stragglers after the bomb runs - if the Bf109s
had stayed out of the Flak and waited for the bombers return and
then taken out the stragglers and a few more bombers that could
have been enough to swing the result. Good scenario - lots of
choices/decisions
#Post#: 2499--------------------------------------------------
Re: O23 Operation Sunrise
DIR By: pilotofficerprune
Date: May 25, 2019, 4:22 am
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Cool, thanks for that, Art. I'm going to crunch the data on the
playthroughs so far and see if there are any lessons to be
learned.
#Post#: 2508--------------------------------------------------
Re: O23 Operation Sunrise
DIR By: pilotofficerprune
Date: May 27, 2019, 3:19 am
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So, two things:
Firstly, I think we have an issue with the volume of flak, so
I’m going to detune it to a Hvy Flak B as noted above. Going to
a single flak unit should put us in a place where it might be
more profitable to barrage.
Secondly, I need people to keep tabs on the cause of losses in
future plays. I need to know if losses are due to air combat or
flak.
Thirdly, given the large losses the British endure, I'm going to
drop the draw window slightly.
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