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#Post#: 969--------------------------------------------------
O23 Operation Sunrise
By: pilotofficerprune Date: January 19, 2019, 4:25 am
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New scenario thread for playtest of Operation Sunrise. Please do
not create a new thread for this scenario.
#Post#: 1053--------------------------------------------------
Re: O23 Operation Sunrise
By: Kevin Date: January 20, 2019, 5:26 pm
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Scenario: O23 Operation Sunrise
Version: v0.1
Playtesters: Solo
Report: First attempt at this scenario and I plan to play it one
to two more times to really get a feel for the Victory
conditions. I kept the Spits in Escort to react to German moves
except for one squadron with Vets and Experte. Despite several
A2A combats with the Spits, there were only 3 German losses.
Meanwhile, the Hampdens took loses of 4 and the Wellingtons 12
in total. 5 of the Wellingtons were lost at the tail of the
column to the stalking squadron of Friedrich's. I'd say the
Germans got very lucky time and again with the cohesion rolls.
Several squadrons were at -2 Ammo but still able to hang in
there. Also, I didn't split any of the squadrons and maybe this
worked out.
Best British attacks were in the melee against the lone flight
of E-7's at the start, where two Emils were shot down while
doing no damage.
Victory: [See note 3]
British bombing 13 VPs + enemies shot down 3 VPs = 16VPs
German enemies shot down 32 VPs
Total: 16 - 32 = -16VPs so German win.......decisively
This felt like the complete disaster that it was in VPs!
Recommendations: None as yet, as I need to have another bash at
this to try to improve the British approach. The Spits really
feel the effect of those drop tank -1 mods and the lack of
tactical flexibility seriously limits them.
#Post#: 1055--------------------------------------------------
Re: O23 Operation Sunrise
By: pilotofficerprune Date: January 20, 2019, 5:45 pm
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Out of interest, were there any fighter losses to the bombers?
#Post#: 1063--------------------------------------------------
Re: O23 Operation Sunrise
By: Kevin Date: January 21, 2019, 2:49 am
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[quote author=Lee Brimmicombe-Wood link=topic=69.msg1055#msg1055
date=1548027918]
Out of interest, were there any fighter losses to the bombers?
[/quote]
Hi Lee, just the one. The 109's basically got round after round
of unescorted shots until they ran out of ammo. Mostly at +4/-4
differentials due to bomb loads being -1. The other two 109
losses came from the Emil flight which was battered at the
outset.
#Post#: 1084--------------------------------------------------
Re: O23 Operation Sunrise
By: Kevin Date: January 21, 2019, 7:40 pm
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Scenario: O23 Operation Sunrise
Version: v0.1
Playtesters: Solo
Report: Second play of this scenario and got pretty much the
same result: after the escorts have been largely dealt with,
it's just a shooting gallery. British VPs can't keep up with
bomber losses. I played a much better British defense in
claiming 12 109s shot down and the Experte with Veteran squadron
managed to break up a whole lot of German flights. I split the
Germans into flights where possible which was equally
devastating. Flak got lucky more than once and claimed five
bombers.
Victory:
British bombing 13 VPs + enemies shot down 12 VPs = 25VPs
German enemies shot down 40 VPs (4 spits and 18 bombers)
Total: 25 - 40 = -15VPs so German win again
Recommendations: subtract the British VPs from the German?!!
5 or less is a British Victory
6 - 10 is a draw
10+ is a German Victory
Did the Brits not have tactical flexibility on this mission? If
so, it would benefit them some to also have it to deal with all
the threats. But leave the setup as is to mirror history. This
is always going to be a disastrous mission.
#Post#: 1088--------------------------------------------------
Re: O23 Operation Sunrise
By: pilotofficerprune Date: January 22, 2019, 12:35 am
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Good AAR!
Reversing the VP calculation is a sensible move.
So far we've seen 32 and 40 VP of British losses, for an average
of 36 VP.
In both plays the British have scored 13 VP from bombing.
The British have scored 12 VP and 3 VP against the Germans, for
an average of 7.5 VP.
Going by the mean values, and subtracting British from German
VPs, we get a mean of 15.5 VP, suggesting that the draw window
should be higher than the one you suggest, unless we can improve
British performance. Historically the escort was ineffectual,
but let's try your proposal to boost the British by allowing
tactical flexibility. I'll make the changes at the weekend.
Out of interest, how did the Germans perform? Which of the
groups of squadrons (ones coming from the front, the one from
behind) did the most damage in both plays?
Do we need to add in split limits to restrict the numbers of Bf
109 flights being generated?
#Post#: 1111--------------------------------------------------
Re: O23 Operation Sunrise
By: Kevin Date: January 22, 2019, 3:05 pm
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[quote author=Lee Brimmicombe-Wood link=topic=69.msg1088#msg1088
date=1548138919]
Out of interest, how did the Germans perform? Which of the
groups of squadrons (ones coming from the front, the one from
behind) did the most damage in both plays?
Do we need to add in split limits to restrict the numbers of Bf
109 flights being generated?
[/quote]
Next time I set this up I'll swap the subtraction around and
give the British tactical flexibility. That might be enough to
level it up a bit more! A split limit for the German is perhaps
not required. I'm happy the Brits did quite a bit of damage in
the second game.
Looking at the Wing Display at the end I think the losses to
bombers in both plays were roughly the same. In this second
match both sides lost a lot more fighters. The tail end squadron
of Wellingtons suffered 5 losses in both games to the
interceptors coming in on turn 2 in the first game. They got a
whiff in the second game initially but scored at least two of
the five losses to that squadron later on. In the second match
the Germans focused more on Wellingtons and as there were no
early tallies the Emil even darted between the Hampdens and the
escorts to attack the leading Wellington squadron!
In the second game I left the Hampdens to the flak and
concentrated on Wellingtons. I even wonder if the Emil should
drop altitude to 8 or 7 to get past the escorts quicker! Then
collide with the Wellingtons.
There was a nasty dogfight in the second game which pinned down
the veteran Friedrich squadron with the second Experte until he
broke. This done by a single Spit who wasn't even a Veteran!
When this had finished the Wellingtons were just below so two
spits fell quickly back into escort formation.
I'm still trying to attach photos to this forum but size limit
is fairly low.....slightly annoying! ;D
#Post#: 1416--------------------------------------------------
Re: O23 Operation Sunrise
By: pilotofficerprune Date: February 3, 2019, 5:21 am
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For reasons of countersheet space I'm going to remove one of the
Wellington squadrons (the rearmost one) from the British order
of battle. I doubt this will make a huge difference to the
scenario, though I will need to adjust the victory levels.
#Post#: 2298--------------------------------------------------
Re: O23 Operation Sunrise
By: Rick McKown Date: April 12, 2019, 5:30 pm
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Hi Lee,
Set up this one today as well for solo play; noted that per your
22 Jan posting (reflected in SSR #7 - "all fighters") the Brits
now have tac flex, so the OrBat will now need a Max Losses for
flights (=6, presumably).
Rick
#Post#: 2304--------------------------------------------------
Re: O23 Operation Sunrise
By: pilotofficerprune Date: April 13, 2019, 2:36 am
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Roger that. I'll get that fixed.
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