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#Post#: 3829--------------------------------------------------
Re: O24 Heavy Mob
By: Elias Nordling Date: November 11, 2019, 1:15 pm
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It didn't equal a bomber massacre in my game either, which
actually sounded a bit similar to yours, but it ensured almost
all bombers were disrupted or broken due to the mass of cohesion
checks. Also, i rolled an insane amount of 4s with the Germans.
#Post#: 3856--------------------------------------------------
Re: O24 Heavy Mob
By: Gordon Christie Date: November 14, 2019, 3:27 pm
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Allan Galland (Andrew) & I have now completed the last sortie of
the Origins playlets campaign....
Second run through the modified Heavy mob (v0.5).
All worked fine; we're happy with the scenario as it stands
Final outcome:
RAF 4 fighters, 4 Manchesters & 3 4 engined bombers lost (24
VP)
Luftwaffe lost 9 fighters and the port sustained 13 hits (+12
victory points).
Final victory point tallies were Luftwaffe 24, RAF 21.
If we go with the suggested approach of subtracting British
victory points from German this would give a final margin of +3.
(This is a reversal of the victory point calculation from the
initial scenario)
Our feeling was that this was an RAF victory, although a lot
depended on good bombing from a single squadron of Halifaxes
(natural DR of 12, modified to 10 for 50% hits).
In terms of victory levels I would be inclined to slightly
modify the previous suggestion by reducing to +6 as a British
victory, +7 to +10 as a draw, and +11 or above for German
victory.
We are happy with the scenarios that stands, and would be happy
to sign off on it. More data points for VP balancing would do no
harm but probably needn't hold things up.
Cheers
Gordon
#Post#: 3857--------------------------------------------------
Re: O24 Heavy Mob
By: pilotofficerprune Date: November 14, 2019, 4:18 pm
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I'll post the modified scenario at the weekend and ask for final
balancing test next week, if that's at all possible.
#Post#: 3916--------------------------------------------------
Re: O24 Heavy Mob
By: Elias Nordling Date: November 18, 2019, 2:05 pm
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1.0
Player: Elias Nordling (solo)
I still feel the current configuration way overpowers the
Germans, and I still don't have the score to prove it. Again,
the German fighters rolled really crappy, mostly 5s, with very
few kill rolls when they actually scored hits. as a result, the
Germans lost 14 fighters to 5 Spitfires and a few bombers. The
Flak was effective however. Only one British bomber was
disrupted before bombing which is absurd considering there were
13 fighter attacks on the bombers and about 12 Flak attacks.
This should result in more than three cohesion hits on average.
All bombers missed except one that rolled 11 for a healthy
bombing result.
Despite more or less all rolls except the Flak kill rolls going
the British way, the British were only able to score the
narrowest of victories at 6 points.
Final score:
Germans: 4 Halifax, 3 Stirling, 2 Manchester, 5 Spitfire: 30
British: Bombing 12, 14 Messerschmitts: 26
Total: 6. Narrow British victory
I'll have to try again
#Post#: 3928--------------------------------------------------
Re: O24 Heavy Mob
By: Elias Nordling Date: November 19, 2019, 2:14 pm
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1.0
Player: Elias Nordling (Solo)
I finally got the result I needed to back up my suspicion. This
time the German combat rolls didn't suck. In fact, they probably
rolled a bit above average, but not enough to call it an
outlier. They had some luck in cohesion rolls, but not
exceptionally so, and the British fighters hung around almost as
long as the last German fighters.
The Germans got no less than 22 attacks on the bombers, causing
5 cohesion hits on the bombers before bombing, in addition to
massive bomber losses. Some of those 22 attacks were after the
bombers had bombed. Most of the attacks, the bombers were
protected by fighters.
The flak was comparatively ineffective this time, scoring only
one bomber loss and a cohesion hit. Still, the British felt
lucky to get the one 25% hit they got on the port.
Score:
Germans:
3 Manchester, 6 Stirling, 5 Halifax, 15 Spitfire: 54
British:
6 VP bombing, 11 fighters: 17
TOTAL 37
Comment: I think the average result will lie somewhere in
between my last games. It is not bad as a game but it will turn
into a bit of a massacre. I think the balancing efforts have
gone too far in favour of the Germans, but I don't want to
initialize another round of balance playtesting, so maybe just
go with the score averages you get from these last playtests.
If you would like to make another round of adjustments, my
balancing suggestion to tone down the Germans just a little
would be to drop their split limit to 4. This would give them
one less veteran flight to lock up the escorts with.
#Post#: 3929--------------------------------------------------
Re: O24 Heavy Mob
By: pilotofficerprune Date: November 19, 2019, 2:34 pm
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Roger that.
#Post#: 3936--------------------------------------------------
Re: O24 Heavy Mob
By: Gordon Christie Date: November 20, 2019, 2:51 pm
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Andrew & I have now given this another run.
RAF lost 17 fighters & 2 4 engined bombers with 8 hits on the
port (+12 VP)
LW lost 10 fighters
Final scores
LW 23 VP
RAF 22
Nett +1 for British victory which it felt like.
We're pretty happy as it stands. No real objections to Elias
suggestion of reducing the German split limit though I don't in
truth see it as making a huge difference
Happy to sign off.
Cheers
Gordon
#Post#: 3937--------------------------------------------------
Re: O24 Heavy Mob
By: pilotofficerprune Date: November 20, 2019, 3:01 pm
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So recent scores are:
Gordon 1 = +8
Gordon 2 = +3
Elias 1 = +6
Elias 2 = +37 (!)
Gordon 3 = +1
So with the outlier +37 result, the mean score is +11. If we
take out the outlier, it is +4.5. However, I feel the outlier
reflects that some scenarios will result in big scores. Perhaps
the current draw window serves as a good compromise.
#Post#: 3940--------------------------------------------------
Re: O24 Heavy Mob
By: Elias Nordling Date: November 20, 2019, 11:40 pm
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I might do one more test as I still feel the average is much
higher. For the forward part of the British formation, it is
more or less imoossible to not set up the escort in a large
formation which means the Germans can assign wing orders to them
right away. The result is little or no escort reactions in my
games, meaning lots of attacks on the bombers, 18 on average.
The Spitfires will onlyvrarely be able to draw them off in
dogfights.
#Post#: 3942--------------------------------------------------
Re: O24 Heavy Mob
By: pilotofficerprune Date: November 21, 2019, 1:26 am
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I bet you can set up the escort in non-large formation. You just
have to be prepared to set up at least two escort squadrons in
the same square.
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