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DIR Return to: IGNORE: Wing Leader Playtest Archive
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#Post#: 3748--------------------------------------------------
Re: O24 Heavy Mob
By: chief2000 Date: November 7, 2019, 7:28 am
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I found that one of the biggest issues was the considerably
greater firepower of the Spits versus the 109Fs. Not a whole
lot to be done about that, though.
#Post#: 3756--------------------------------------------------
Re: O24 Heavy Mob
By: Andrew Brazier Date: November 8, 2019, 8:25 am
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Our thoughts are that forcing retention of the drop tanks should
defang the Spitfires enough to offset at least some of their
firepower advantage. If that's not enough then starting them at
fuel limits as well would make them more fragile and more liable
to disrupt/break.
We'll give it another run on Sunday and see how the modified
setup plays out. :)
#Post#: 3766--------------------------------------------------
Re: O24 Heavy Mob
By: pilotofficerprune Date: November 8, 2019, 1:21 pm
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To help facilitate a rapid test I have uploaded a file of this
scenario (only) to dropbox, incorporating Gordon and Andrew's
proposed changes. Can we test this please?
#Post#: 3769--------------------------------------------------
Re: O24 Heavy Mob
By: Elias Nordling Date: November 8, 2019, 3:23 pm
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v0.5
Player: Elias Nordling (Solo)
I think we might have pushed this too far. Not only was the
result a smashing win for the Germans, but it was also a bit of
a positive outlier for the Allies!
8 big bombers were lost, but I counted the number of 4:s the
germans rolled in combat to 7. More representative was the fact
that the Germans got 18 attacks on the bombers, flak excluded,
and that all but 1 bomber was disrupted or broken when bombing.
The final bomber rolled 25% and one of the others 10%, which was
probably a lucky score too.
Final score
Allies: Bombing 12, 12 Bf109: 24
Axis: 7 Spitfires, 8 viermots: 31
Score: -7 German win
Comment: I feel this one could have been much worse for the
Allies. My suggestion would be to scale back the Germans to 5
squadrons again. With a split limit of 6 and 3 veterans, the
Germans will have enough maneuver elements anyway.
#Post#: 3771--------------------------------------------------
Re: O24 Heavy Mob
By: pilotofficerprune Date: November 8, 2019, 4:03 pm
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Okay, having read Elias's feedback I now have two Heavy Mob
files on dropbox. One is for v0.5 with the extra squadron. One
is marked v0.6 and has that extra squadron removed and the
three-squadron wing set up at altitude 12.
Gordon and Andrew can choose which they prefer to test on
Sunday, but I'd recommend v0.6.
#Post#: 3806--------------------------------------------------
Re: O24 Heavy Mob
By: pilotofficerprune Date: November 11, 2019, 2:54 am
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Do we have a report from Gordon and Andrew?
#Post#: 3824--------------------------------------------------
Re: O24 Heavy Mob
By: Gordon Christie Date: November 11, 2019, 8:38 am
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Andrew and I have now given this a second go.
Overall we are much happier with it. The game flow is much
better, and it fits the history a great deal better.
There are interesting choices for both players, particularly the
Luftwaffe early on in terms of engaging the escort or going
directly for the larger bomber formation. The straggling
Manchesters at the back also give the left-hand Luftwaffe
squadrons some choices. As the game developed the Spitfires were
at something of a disadvantage, but still able to give a
reasonable account of themselves and the Germans certainly
couldn't ignore the threat they posed. The bombers are pretty
tough, particularly for firepower 1 fighters.
In the end the RAF lost 11 fighters and 5 bombers (one
Manchester) for +25 German victory points. Bombing was
relatively poor with only 3 hits (+1 victory point). 7 German
fighters were lost for a final British score of +8 victory
points.
The dice seemed reasonably even. I'd be inclined to regard this
as a fairly "average" play in terms of dice. It certainly felt
like a German victory.
Based on this single play through I think that the Germans are
likely to score more victory points – probably 10 or so fighters
and 4 or so bombers for an expected AtA outcome of +22 or so
victory points.
I think the bombing outcome is likely to be 4 or 5 hits (+6
victory points) and the Germans are likely to lose 6 or so
fighters giving a British VP total of +12 or so. If we treat
this as roughly the expected outcome then I would suggest
victory levels (subtracting British from German victory points)
should be:
+7 or less: British victory
+8 to +12: draw
+13 or more: German victory
This would put our play through solidly in German victory
territory – which feels right. Better bombuing (which the
British came very close to) might have shifted it back towards
draw.
Final suggested modifications to the scenario:
Left-hand German fighters set up with wing leader in D12 (facing
R)
Bombers set up in I8, G8 (Stirlings), K9, L9 (Halifaxes)
2 Squadron German wing sets up with wing leader in R12 (facing
L)
2 Squadron German wing sets up facing L with wing leader in W13
(this increases number of German fighter squadrons in play to 6)
Manchester Squadron sets up in G8
Spitfires have non-jettisonable double drop tanks
Remainder of setup is unchanged.
If desired we can give this another go on Thursday for balancing
purposes.
Cheers
Gordon
#Post#: 3825--------------------------------------------------
Re: O24 Heavy Mob
By: pilotofficerprune Date: November 11, 2019, 9:45 am
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Gordon, just to confirm this is the v0.5 version I posted to
dropbox, but with the Manchesters moved one column right and a
much higher draw window?
I think more test of this would be good, yes.
#Post#: 3827--------------------------------------------------
Re: O24 Heavy Mob
By: Elias Nordling Date: November 11, 2019, 10:19 am
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Was that the 6 squadron version? I found that in that version,
the Germans jst split all the veterans to get 9 maneuver units,
then sent a veteran flight against each escort while the rest
beat up the bombers. I felt it was a bit too big advantage for
the Germans.
#Post#: 3828--------------------------------------------------
Re: O24 Heavy Mob
By: Gordon Christie Date: November 11, 2019, 11:35 am
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Yes, v0.5. I take Elias' point about the Germans getting through
to the bombers but the bombers are fairly tough & flights don't
necessarily persist for a long time. In our game Andrew used all
of the available split capacity & it didn't translate into a
bomber massacre (despite a neat 2 squadron split of the
righthand wing-III Gruppe- which got attacks on 3 bombers
without fighter interference -the fourth flight was caught by
the last available Spitfire squadron on escort). Subsequently a
couple of Spit squadrons which had outlasted their 109 (flight)
opponents were able to come to the rescue of the bombers
attacked by German flights. I don't necessarily think splitting
maximally into flights is a killer Luftwaffe tactic.
Minor point on v0.5 III Gruppe needs a radio net.
BTW-sorry I wasn't around when Lee phoned yesterday; busy day
for a variety of reasons & by the time I was sorted I reckoned
you'd have gone back to Guildford. Around this week & weekend
though:-))
Cheers
Gordon
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