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#Post#: 968--------------------------------------------------
O24 Heavy Mob
By: pilotofficerprune Date: January 19, 2019, 4:23 am
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New scenario thread for playtest of Heavy Mob. Please do not
create a new thread for this scenario.
#Post#: 1815--------------------------------------------------
Re: O24 Heavy Mob
By: chief2000 Date: February 19, 2019, 11:48 am
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Lee, I've been looking for the Manchester ADC and can't find it
in Origins, Blitz, Victories or Supremacy. Maybe I've just
overlooked it.
#Post#: 1816--------------------------------------------------
Re: O24 Heavy Mob
By: pilotofficerprune Date: February 19, 2019, 12:52 pm
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It's amongst the late war ADCs, with the other British heavies
and mediums.
At some point I'll consolidate the Origins ADCs into a single
file, but I haven't had a chance yet. I'll do that once we have
all the Victories and Eagles work out of the way.
#Post#: 1817--------------------------------------------------
Re: O24 Heavy Mob
By: chief2000 Date: February 19, 2019, 1:39 pm
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Thanks!
#Post#: 1864--------------------------------------------------
Re: O24 Heavy Mob
By: chief2000 Date: February 23, 2019, 10:25 am
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Scenario: O24 Heavy Mob
Version: v0.1
Playtesters: Chris Bryans (Solo)
Report: This is my first playtest of this scenario and my first
using Wing rules. I am playing this one rather conservatively
for these reasons. Note: In all air combats involving the
Spitfire V, it has the edge
Set up: Height error roll on both Wing leaders drives the
vector two hexes higher.
Turn one
II Gruppe leader tallies Manchester and I Gruppe leader tallies
Halifax T. Spitfire Cover leader fails tally on II Gruppe
leader.
I Gruppe leader orders Me109 C and G to concentrate on second
Halifax (W) . Wing leader will focus on the first Halifax (T)
Turn two
Spitfire Cover leader fails tally on II Gruppe leader.
I Gruppe leader attempts to move into Halifax T but Spitfire Q
escorts reacts early. Tanks dropped.
109 G moves into Halifax W square. Spitfire S tallies late.
Tanks dropped
Air Combat
Spitfire Q bounces 109 B (early reaction) (I Gruppe leader).
Me-109 suffers three losses and the Spits none.
Cohesion: Spitfire Q is good; Me109 B disrupted
Spitfire S and Halifax W vs. Me109 G
Me109 G suffers two losses and Spits are not affected.
Both sides accept dogfight
Cohesion roll disrupts Me-109 G and Spit S is good.
Turn three
Spitfire Cover leader fails tally on II Gruppe leader.
Heavy flak direct fire by both heavy flak units against Halifax
T and W – no effect against either.
Air Combat
Dogfight I Gruppe leader vs. Spitfire Q. No effect on either
Cohesion: Spitfire Q is good and I Gruppe leader broken
Spitfire S vs. Me109 G. Spitfire S incurs two losses with no
effect on Me109 G
Cohesion: Both are broken
Turn four
Spitfire Cover leader fails tally on II Gruppe leader.
II Gruppe attempts move into Manchester square. Spitfire escort
R succeeds early tally. Although escort Spitfire L tallies
late, the “best reaction” rule applies in this case. Both
dropped tanks.
Direct fire both heavy flak vs Halifax T and W – no effect.
Halifax T scores 3 vp. Over target
Air Combat
Spitfires L and R vs. II Gruppe. No effect on any of the
participants
Cohesion: Both Spitfires cohesion roll is good; Me 109 II
Gruppe leader disrupts. Me109F is broken.
Spits confine 109F in dogfight
Turn five
Me109 C tallies Halifax W
Spitfires Q, K and D tally Me109 C. K and D drop tanks
Heavy flak in port targets Halifax T with direct fire. No
effect.
Both heavy flak targets Halifax W – no effect. W completed its
bomb run.
Air Combat
Spitfires L and R vs. Me109 F. No effect on any participant
Cohesion: Spitfire R disrupted. Spitfire L broken. Me109 F
good
Dogfight continues between Me109 F and Spitfire R
Turn six
Heavy flak direct fire against Stirling U and Manchester no
effect on either
Air Combat
Me109 C vs. Halifax W – no effect on either
Cohesion: Both Me 109 C and Halifax W good
Spitfire R vs. Me109 F. Spitfire R loses two. No effect on
Me109 F
Cohesion: Me 109 F disrupted. Spitfire R broken.
Turn seven
Flak changes to barrage. Targets both Stirlings, Manchester and
Spitfires passing over/through target area. Effects:
No effect on Spitfires K and Q. Spitfire D cohesion roll is
good
Stirling U suffers two stragglers. Cohesion good
Stirling V. First square: Cohesion roll good. Second square no
effect
Manchester: First square no effect. Second: cohesion roll
good
Air Combat
Me109 C vs. Halifax W. No effect on Me109. Halifax: one loss
and one straggler
Cohesion for both good
Victory
Germans: 7 points (four Spitfires, one Halifax)
British: 20 (five Me109, 15 bombardment points (3x5 bombers=15)
20-7=13 British victory (barely)
Recommendations: I really liked this scenario as it offers a
lot of decision making on the part of both players. Those
decisions will have a major impact, I think, on the results.
This one could have gone either way. My next playtest I will
definitely split the Me109s when giving Wing orders. The Spit
escorts too easily pounce on interceptions and the bombers get
away rather easily. The abysmal flak results also impacted the
score. The fact that the Cover Wing tasked with sweep couldn't
get into the action at all was probably due to my placing them
in less than optimal interception range from the I Gruppe. I
will have to look at all these in my second playtest.
#Post#: 1869--------------------------------------------------
Re: O24 Heavy Mob
By: pilotofficerprune Date: February 23, 2019, 12:12 pm
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I was surprised you didn’t lose more bombers. I thought the
Manchesters in particular would be vulnerable.
#Post#: 1870--------------------------------------------------
Re: O24 Heavy Mob
By: chief2000 Date: February 23, 2019, 12:41 pm
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Yeah, those were the ones that the I Gruppe were headed for but
by the time they got there, the escort jumped on them. I have
to revise my strategy and deployment.
#Post#: 1966--------------------------------------------------
Re: O24 Heavy Mob
By: chief2000 Date: February 28, 2019, 2:30 pm
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Scenario: O24 Heavy Mob
Version: v0.1
Playtesters: Chris Bryans (Solo)
Report: This is my second playtest of this scenario and my
second using Wing rules. This time, I will split the Bf109
squadrons. Note: In all air combats involving the Spitfire V,
it has the edge
Set up: Height error roll on both Bf109 Wing leaders has no
effect
Turn One
II Gruppe Wing leader tallies Manchester. Orders wing to
concentrate on Manchester. (Note: because of split limit, the
II Gruppe will operate as squadrons)
Escort cover fails tally of II Gruppe
I Gruppe leader tallies Halifax I T. Orders to all squadrons to
split; D (wing leader) splits into P and R; G splits into O and
Q; F splits into M and N. Orders one flight from each squadron
to engage Halifax T and W to draw escorts into dogfight while
the others vector toward bombers to engage them. I Gruppe Wing
leader’s flights are low and must climb for awhile to engage.
The Bf109Fs’ slow climb rate will mean this will take awhile.
Escort Spits continue with bombers
Turn Two
Spit Wing leader tallies II Gruppe Bf109 B. Wing drops tanks
and Wing leader orders both to engage that squadron.
Spit Q early reaction against I Gruppe Bf109 flight O. Drops
tanks.
Air Combat: Spit Q vs. Bf 109 O. Spit nets straggler while
Bf109 fails to score
Cohesion: both are ok
Spit fails to succeed in breaking away and a dogfight ensues
Spit escort cover wing vs. II Gruppe Bf 109 Wing leader (B)
Spit scores one Bf109 loss while Bf 109 fails to score
Cohesion: both Spits pass cohesion and so does the Bf 109.
Spits are pinned into a dogfight.
Turn Three
Spitfire S late reaction to II Gruppe Bf 109 C
Direct fire flak targets Halifax T. No effect and cohesion is
good
Air Combat
Dogfight II Gruppe leader vs. Spits D and K. Spits score one
loss on Bf-109 B (II Gruppe leader).
Cohesion roll disrupts Bf-109 II Gruppe leader and Spits pass
Spit S and Manchester vs II Gruppe Bf109 C squadron Spits score
straggler in Bf 109 and Bf-109 fails to score.
Cohesion: Spit S is broken and Bf109 C is disrupted
Spit Q vs I Gruppe Bf109 O flight dogfight
Spit nets a loss and straggler on Bf109 O which converts
previous straggler to loss. Bf 109 fails to score (You can
teach…..monkeys to fly better than that!)
Cohesion: Spit Q is disrupted and so is Bf 109 O flight
Turn Four
II Gruppe Bf 109 C drops tally on Spit S and regains tally on
Manchester
Spit Q late reaction against I Gruppe Bf 109 Q
Heavy flak targets Halifax T and scores a loss and a straggler
on Halifax W.
Cohesion is good on both.
Halifax T performs bomb run – 3 points
Air Combat
Spits D and K (Sweep wing) vs. II Gruppe Bf109 B
No effect by either participant.
Cohesion: Both Spits pass but the II Gruppe leader breaks.
Spit Q vs I Gruppe Bf109 O flight. Spits score two losses and
straggler on Bf109 and Bf109 fails to score
Cohesion: both Spit Q and Bf109 O break
Spit L vs. I Gruppe Bf109 flight M. No effect by either
combatant
Cohesion: Spit passes but Bf109 M flight breaks
It is costly, but the Germans attempts to whittle away the
escorts is slowly working. Low squadron Bf109 flights are still
climbing or moving to engage the bombers.
II Gruppe Bf109 C vs Manchester – no effect on either combatant
Cohesion: Bf109 C breaks; Manchester disrupts
I Gruppe Bf 109 N flight vs Halifax W nets a straggler on
Halifax W which becomes a loss from previous straggler (from
flak). No effect on Bf109
Cohesion: both pass
Two air combats above the target:
Spit R vs I Gruppe Bf109 Q. No effect on either combatant
Cohesion: both pass
I Gruppe Bf109 R flight vs Halifax T. No effect on either
combatant
Cohesion: both pass
Turn Five
I Gruppe Bf109 tallies Stirling U
Spit L late tallies I Gruppe Bf109 P
Direct fire flak targets Stirling U – no effect and Stirling V –
no effect
Bomb run Halifax W – 3 points
Air Combat
Spit L vs. Bf 109 P flight. Spit nets a loss on the Bf 109. No
hits for the Bf 109
Cohesion breaks Spit L and disrupts Bf 109 P
Spit R vs. I Gruppe Bf 109 Q flight
No effect on either combatant and cohesion on both is good
I Gruppe Bf 109 R vs Halifax T
Halifax doesn’t scored; Bf 109 R flight nets straggler (becomes
a loss due to previous straggler)
Cohesion: Halifax T disrupted and Bf 109 R flight is good
I Gruppe Bf 109 N vs. Halifax W
Halifax scores loss on Bf 109 and Bf 109 scores loss and
straggler on Halifax W
Cohesion: Halifax passes but Bf 109 N breaks
Turn Six
I Gruppe Bf 109 P flight breaks tally on Spit L and tallies
Stirling W
Heavy Flak Direct fire vs Stirling U – straggler; versus
Stirling V – no effect
Both perform bomb run and net 3 p oints each
Dogfight Spit R vs. I Gruppe Bf 109 Q – no effect on either but
both disrupt during cohesion check
I Gruppe BF 109 P vs. Stirling U
Stirling nets one 109 loss – no impact to Stirling
Cohesion check breaks Bf 109 P and Stirling is good
I Gruppe Bf 109 R flight vs Halifax T
Bf 109 nets Halifax straggler – no effect on Bf 109
Cohesion disrupts Bf 109 R but Halifax T passes
Turn Seven
Heavy flak vs Stirling V – no effect; against Manchester – one
straggler
Manchester bomb run nets one point (earlier disruption)
Air Combat
I Gruppe Bf 109 Q flight vs Spit R
Spit scores two losses on Bf 109 Q but no score against Spit
Cohesion breaks both Spit and Bf 109 Q
I Gruppe Bf 109 R vs Halifax T; neither combatant scores
Cohesion: Halifax T passes; Bf 109 R breaks
Victory
British: 13 (bomb runs)+ 14 (Bf 109 losses) = 27
Germans 12 (four Halifaxes) + 2 Spits =14
27-14=13 British victory (same score as last game)
Recommendations: None yet. It is clear that the Spits will
nearly always score against the 109s because of their awesome
firepower and Edge. This was the first game I’ve played where I
had so many combats going on at once. Splitting the 109 flights
as I did definitely improved the Germans’ chances for drawing a
victory or at least a draw by wearing out the escorts and giving
the rest of the flights a chance to score. Of course, it
doubled the 109s losses. It turned on one die roll on the last
combat of the game. Had the Bf 109 R rolled a four instead of a
three, it would have scored a straggler which would have turned
into the loss, turning the victory score to a Draw! (five
Halifaxes = 15+2=17 vs British at 27 (10 points – draw). It
makes for a good game.
#Post#: 1967--------------------------------------------------
Re: O24 Heavy Mob
By: pilotofficerprune Date: February 28, 2019, 5:04 pm
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So we've had two bare British victories, but not a sign of a
German one yet. How do you judge the hill the Germans have to
climb?
#Post#: 1968--------------------------------------------------
Re: O24 Heavy Mob
By: chief2000 Date: February 28, 2019, 8:55 pm
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The victory was narrow, of course, with the Spits scoring
practically every time but the 109s not doing as well. I'm
thinking of something that might even things up a little. The
key would be giving the 109s more time and opportunities to
intercept. Splits helped. The first playtest saw only one
bomber casualty while this one four were lost - almost five.
Here are some ideas that have been rolling around in my head:
1. Change the Sweep to two flights or one squadron
2. Place the I Gruppe higher. The 109F's climb rate is pretty
slow and that affected interception time.
3. I could also suggest eliminating one of the escort squadrons
but that may imbalance it too far.
Think I will go back to Hunters in the Sky this weekend and give
that another go.
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