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#Post#: 1671--------------------------------------------------
Re: O26 Forgotten Planes
By: Gordon Christie Date: February 11, 2019, 3:25 pm
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Elias is probably right:-))
But...I think this is pretty reasonable as it stands. Very few
will know the history well & it fits with the narrative in the
scenario description. I'm loathe to suggest making systemic
changes-I'm already uneasy at the unconventional victory
conditions & roll a 6 to kill an experte. One of the reasons I
parted company from Combat Commander (which in certain respects
I know I like a lot more than Lee) was the number of scenarios
which seems to need exception cases to fairly fundamental rules
to work. I think the basic chassis here works very well in a
wide variety of situations & I'm reluctant to see changes unless
there is a compelling case.
This is actually an interesting fighter vs fighter scenario.
Potentially a fairly neutral setup with very balanced aircraft &
consequently needs something to prevent it being driven by the
luck of the dice. I think the quality/ quantity narrative could
work well here with the Nationalists under pressure to win big
but at risk of losing big if a flight gets eliminated & takes an
experte with it. that's unusual & something we haven't had
before.
Cheers
Gordon
#Post#: 1672--------------------------------------------------
Re: O26 Forgotten Planes
By: Agm84ssm Date: February 11, 2019, 4:22 pm
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Nothing is further from my intention than to break the rules.
I understand all the problems Lee anticipates.
Probably I overreactioned to any suggestions.
The number of Nationalists aircrafts participating in this
combat is well known.
Orthodoxia with rules would be 2 fligths of 6 CR32 and 1 fligth
of 6 He112
I can live without a veteran marker for Republicans
I think the starting set up is correct
I like the victory conditions and the losses threshold as end
point.
I like the large number of test games that have been made.
Lee, you are the boss and must decide between all the opinions
#Post#: 1675--------------------------------------------------
Re: O26 Forgotten Planes
By: pilotofficerprune Date: February 12, 2019, 4:04 am
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Well, I'm really grateful for everyone's feedback. It's great
when we get a debate, with people pulling in different
directions, just like we had on Desperate Improvisations on
Eagles. However, nice though it would be to try and plot some
middle path to accomodate everyone, I suspect that would be the
worst solution to this problem. I think we will need to push it
one way and stick to that direction.
So, I'm going to ask people to knock off this scenario for now
and move on to other scenarios. I'll look at it, push it around
and come back with a revision at the weekend. Then I'll probably
ask for one or maybe two people to review it, rather than
encourage a pile-on.
Again, thanks for all the feedback. It's exactly this level of
discussion we need.
#Post#: 1770--------------------------------------------------
Re: O26 Forgotten Planes
By: pilotofficerprune Date: February 17, 2019, 1:54 am
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After going back through the feedback I’m going to restore the
CR.32 set-up and the Republican Veteran.
I'm going to ask everyone to cool it on this scenario for now,
though I'd like Elias to give this one another pop to validate
the changes, if that's okay.
#Post#: 1792--------------------------------------------------
Re: O26 Forgotten Planes
By: Elias Nordling Date: February 17, 2019, 1:54 pm
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v0.4
Player: Elias Nordling (Solo)
The fancy footwork that I always see in this scenario turned
into one long and complex tally chain, which in turn ended with
two combats, one favouring the Nationalists at +4 and one the
Republicans at +4. Both had disappointing results and low
cohesion rolls, but what turned out to be decisive for the
scenario as a whole was the fact that the He112 rolled snake
eyes for cohesion.
A Cr32 took the place of the CR.32 and was able to keep
attacking at +4/+3, while the Republicans kept up the other
fight. The Republicans had better luck with their kill rolls,
and won the scenario with 4 Nationalist losses to 1 Republican
loss, and one straggler on each side. Nothing in the combats
themselves mandated this outcome, it was purely the dice this
time.
I must admit that I missed when the CR.32s were moved in the
setup, so they were always in the same spaces in my plays.
I think the scenario is fine as is now. The Republican veteran
probably makes the scenario more balanced, as the Nationalists
have the advantage of the experten and altitude, and only the
disadvantage of the flight for the He112. It probably still
favours the Nationalists slightly, but nothing you can't make up
for with good die rolling or your opponent making a stupid move.
I'm signing off on this one. I quite like it for all its
simplicity, and I did so from the start.
#Post#: 1800--------------------------------------------------
Re: O26 Forgotten Planes
By: ScottKey Date: February 17, 2019, 7:06 pm
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It’s a good one. The small scenarios in this expansion are
turnimg out to be gems, IMHO
#Post#: 1846--------------------------------------------------
Re: O26 Forgotten Planes
By: pilotofficerprune Date: February 23, 2019, 1:43 am
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A question for Javier: what was the armament of the He 112 in
Spain? Did the Spanish variants carry the dual 20mm? I'm a
little unclear on this.
#Post#: 1856--------------------------------------------------
Re: O26 Forgotten Planes
By: Agm84ssm Date: February 23, 2019, 3:41 am
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Spanish He112 were versión B0.
They had 2 machineguns of 7 mm at each side of engine and 2
cannons of 20mm in the wings
#Post#: 1862--------------------------------------------------
Re: O26 Forgotten Planes
By: Agm84ssm Date: February 23, 2019, 7:07 am
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The history of the Spanish He112 is curious.
The first order of He112B was made by the Imperial Japanese Navy
that needed an interceptor with good fast climbing
characteristics to face the Chinese SB bombers. They ordered 24
devices and 12 were delivered at the beginning of 1938. The
Sudeten Crisis caused the Germans to take the 12 He112 pending
delivery and integrate them into the Luftwaffe. Meanwhile the
Japanese were disappointed with the plane because it required a
lot of maintenance and its maneuverability was lower than that
of their own fighters. The Spanish Nationalists took those 12
planes. In February of 1939, 8 planes had arrived in Spain.
#Post#: 2973--------------------------------------------------
Re: O26 Forgotten Planes
By: Scott Spencer Date: August 25, 2019, 7:58 pm
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Scenario: 026 Forgotten Planes.
Version 0.4.
Playtesters: Scott S(solo)
Set Up: I-16 given Veteran marker. CR 32 Vectors in K7. No
errors.
Summary:
Turn 1: No tallying possible. CR 32s climbed to altitude 7.
Turn 2: Both I-15s tallied lead CR 32, Both CR 32s tallied lead
I-15. He 112 and I-16 both failed tally rolls. I-15s both
climbed to altitude 7 and formed up in same square. CR 32s
engaged head on. Combat resulted in 2 losses(kills) for lead
I-15 squadron and it was Broken. Lead CR 32 rolled a '2' for
Cohesion but with modifiers it avoided breaking and was only
disrupted.
Turn 3: He 112 Tallies I-16. I-16 tallies 2nd CR 32. 2nd CR
32 tallies unbroken I-15. Lead CR 32 pursues broken I-15. I-16
enters square with 2nd I-15 and 2nd CR32 and is followed by He
112. Combat results in 1 kill on I-16 with 2nd I-15 breaking.
CR 32 pursuing Broken I-15 scores another kill but breaks.
Turn 4: 3 more kills scored on I-16s, breaking them.
7 Republican kills ends the fight in the Nationalists favor.
Republican dice rolling was horrible. Even with better dice
rolling it would have been an uphill fight. The combination of
veteran squadrons, 3 Experte, and the He 112s firepower are
tough to beat. The lack of Radios was also sorely felt.
Recommendation: I will give it another try, have the I-16s go
for the He 112s directly. Breaking them could definitely change
the dynamic.
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