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#Post#: 1139--------------------------------------------------
Re: O02 Operation Wasserkante
By: Okmed Date: January 23, 2019, 9:53 am
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Scenario: O02 Operation Wasserkante
Version: v0.1
Player: Dave Demko (solo)
Narrative: The Poles sent two squadrons to persue the low
bombers and two to converge head-on with the high bombers. They
opted not to split, emphasizing firepower and the cohesion
advantage instead of broader coverage of the bombers. In truth,
four squadrons gives decent coverage. The critical number for
the Poles is not the unit count but the number of turns before
the Heinkels drop their bombs. The Poles did what they could to
avoid fighting as defenders by choosing sensible vectors and
waiting to tally the bombers. That kind of stalking left the
escorts flat-footed for a turn. In combat, the Poles used
turning fights to try to maximize hits on bombers, even at the
risk of the ubiqitous German defence ratings. Rationale: Force
cohesion checks on the bombers and gain 2 VP per kill. The
Germans forced a dogfight to strip the interceptors off of a
bomber squadron. That worked, but at the cost of two Bf 110s. In
general the Bf 110s broke easily. The P.11c squadrons held out
pretty well on cohesion rolls though they got disrupted early;
+1 as attacker and -1 for no radios is not that bad for full
squadrons. Things started well for the Poles, who sent home a Bf
110 flight and an He 111 squadron on Turn 2. But eventually
three of the Heinkels were able to bomb the airfield. The Poles
traded kills with the bombers in the end-game for a net 1 VP
gain, but it wasn't enough.
Victory: Germans 10 VP bombing + 10 VP kills
Poles 3 VP fighter kills + 6 VP bomber kills
net 11, clear German victory
Recommendations: No solid recommendations after my first
reasonable play-through. I can see that shifting the airfield
left or right can be a major play-balance tool. The scenario
delivered an exciting story. The Poles have several tradeoffs to
consider. The Germans have fewer options, mainly how best to set
up the escorts and whether to tally or react. Given the
restrictions on the Germans (level bombing only), this is a fine
solitaire scenario. In further tests I will experiment with
different interceptor and escort setups and interceptor splits.
I like how the biplane-like performance of the P.11c, the setup
with interceptors below the bombers, and the "opening-night
jitters" rule for disrupted bomber squadrons all give this
scenario a different feel. The Poles were motivated to make some
unconventional choices.
#Post#: 1140--------------------------------------------------
Re: O02 Operation Wasserkante
By: chief2000 Date: January 23, 2019, 11:53 am
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Lee, Mustafa - I have four Heinkel squadrons: S, Q, T, and U.
That was all the scenario called for, right?
#Post#: 1141--------------------------------------------------
Re: O02 Operation Wasserkante
By: Elias Nordling Date: January 23, 2019, 11:59 am
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[quote]Lee, Mustafa - I have four Heinkel squadrons: S, Q, T,
and U. That was all the scenario called for, right?[/quote]
I checked the Blitz couuntersheet, and there is an extra Heinkel
there. So now Lee has to decide if he wants this scenario to
require Blitz or not.
#Post#: 1142--------------------------------------------------
Re: O02 Operation Wasserkante
By: pilotofficerprune Date: January 23, 2019, 12:35 pm
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[quote author=Chris Bryans link=topic=65.msg1140#msg1140
date=1548265984]I have four Heinkel squadrons: S, Q, T, and U.
That was all the scenario called for, right?[/quote]
It is, but as Elias pointed out, there was a fourth Heinkel
included in the Blitz counterset. However, I'd rather this not
be a 'you need Blitz to play' scenario. Not least because that
fourth Heinkel squadron depicts a torpedo bomber. So let's plan
on adding a squadron to the counter roster. I shall find a way
to make it work.
#Post#: 1148--------------------------------------------------
Re: O02 Operation Wasserkante
By: chief2000 Date: January 23, 2019, 3:20 pm
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I just noticed that torpedo! Oops.
#Post#: 1149--------------------------------------------------
Re: O02 Operation Wasserkante
By: niedziak Date: January 23, 2019, 3:55 pm
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[quote author=Lee Brimmicombe-Wood link=topic=65.msg1087#msg1087
date=1548138240]
Do you have the most recent version of the Origins file that I
updated at the weekend? That fixed the problem.
[/quote]
I didn't. Downloaded it and now there is no problem.
[quote author=Lee Brimmicombe-Wood link=topic=65.msg1087#msg1087
date=1548138240]
I'm not sure what you mean by not being sure how to proceed. The
first few posts in this thread are a guide to my preferred
process:
[/quote]
I meant the scenario, rest is clear to me. I will be finally
able to play it solo tomorrow and I'm starting it on Vassal with
Terry Simo as we finished playing Blitz.
#Post#: 1150--------------------------------------------------
Re: O02 Operation Wasserkante
By: guest30 Date: January 23, 2019, 4:17 pm
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Scenario: 002 Operation Wasserkante
Version: 0.1 (Origins 19Jan19)
ADC versions: He-111 v2.0, Me-110C-4 v2.1, P.11c v0.1
Rules version: 25Nov18
Playtesters: Mustafa (solo)
Report: This time, the Germans setup three Me-110 flights below,
co-altitude, and just above the lead bomber. The reasoning was
that the low Me-110 would have the best shot at tallying the
P.11s as they climbed and would alert the others, who would have
more altitude to work with as they tried to engage the P.11s
before they get to the bombers. Once again, this is also where
the German placed their Veteran / Experten (into the same
flight). The final Me110 started just above the westernmost
bomber, intended to act as a reserve.
The Poles concentrated all squadrons over the airfield (columns
L to O due to the inability to stack). The plan was again to
climb up to the bombers' altitude and make head-on attacks. It
was also a hope (forlorn as it turns out) that spotting them as
they climbed would be tougher for the Germans since the sun
would be behind them.
There were no tallies on Turn 1 due to the clouds. The Germans
rolled in and the Poles climbed as fast as they could.
On Turn 2, the low Me-110 spotted the leading P.11 despite the
sun. (die roll of 5 at a distance of 4). Interestingly, it turns
out that I could have started these Me-110s higher. Given the
way range works diagonally, all Me-110s ended up at range 4 to
the lead P.11, even though they were stacked up at H3, H4, and
H5 (the P.11 was in L3). The veteran escort squadron also
tallied after rolling a 3 and getting pointers over the radio
net. However, the last escort failed to tally, even with the
radio call, rolling a 1. In return, the leading P.11 tallied
the low escort, and the second P.11 (Veteran) tallied the lead
He-111. This setup an interesting choice for the Poles -- if
they closed with the bombers, they would not be able to attack
them this turn since they also needed to climb one more band.
But doing this would allow the escorts to attack them, with the
higher escort getting an additional bonus to its speed by
diving. They kept on climbing instead. The veteran P.11 set
itself up at two away from the lead bomber, expecting to have
the Heinkels waltz into its square and thus setup a head-on.
Note that it did not worry about being bounced by the high
escort, since it would have tallied a bomber in the same combat.
The only notable event in the Tally phase on Turn 3 was the
failure of one of the still-climbing P.11s to tally the Germans
-- since it rolled just one less than what it needed, the lack
of radios really made a difference here. Movement phase resulted
in three combats -- the veteran Me-110 against a climbing P.11,
the Veteran P.11 against the lead Heinkel and its escort, and
the low Me-110 vs the lead (and still low) P.11.
Combat 1: The Veteran Me-110 rolled abysmally (4), and scored no
hits, despite rolling on the +4 column. And just as amazingly,
the Poles managed to land a hit by rolling 12 (down to 10 for
the head-on attack) on the -4 column. They failed to damage the
Me-110, however (damage roll 3). The Me-110's terrible luck
continued, and a roll of 3 on the cohesion check meant that they
were out of the fight, despite being the attacker and a veteran.
The Poles passed, lack of radios notwithstanding, by rolling a
9.
Combat 2: This was a head-on. And I noticed that the bombers
could declare evasion, despite being loaded with bombs (a loaded
He-111 has a speed equal to the P.11's basic speed). This alone
may impact the results of these playtests since I had not
noticed that in the previous play, and it is possible that
others are missing it as well. Here, it made the difference
between a hit and a miss since the P.11 rolled an 8 on the +0
column, with a net modifier of -2 (-2 for head-on, -1 evasion,
+1 experte). The Germans got some back with a roll of 11,
landing a hit, and then flaming a P.11 (damage roll 4). The
P.11s were disrupted (lack of radios did not matter, as they
would still have been disrupted without the modifier). But the
Me-110s broke (again!) by rolling a 5. Bombers passed, with an
8.
Combat 3: The Me-110s rolled well for a change (a 9), scoring
two hits on the +2 column, and then converting both to kills (6,
6). The Poles' luck continued, with a roll of 10, which became a
12 due to the Lufberry, scoring two hits back at the Germans.
Damage rolls of 4 and 5 meant that one Me-110 was lost, and the
other straggled. Cohesion rolls of 8 for the Me-110 and 3 for
the P.11 saw the Poles turning to run, while the escorts decided
to stick around for a change.
Turn 4 saw, once again, a massive combat over the airfield, with
three Polish squadrons attacking two Heinkels and a belatedly
climbing 110. This time, one of the Poles was diving, and could
initiate a head-on attack and I considered picking it to stop
the Heinkels from evading (given the +1 to speed from the dive).
But looking over the bonuses for being Veteran & Experte, along
with the turning ability advantage, I once again convinced
myself to pick my Veteran squadron as primary and declare a
turning fight. The Germans promptly declared evasion. The
results were, once again favorable for the Poles: Each side
rolled a 7, which resulted in two hits on the Germans and none
on the Poles (combat was at the +4/-4 columns). Good damage
rolls meant that two Heinkels were downed. After cohesion
rolls, one P.11 (the Veteran, of course) had broken, and one was
disrupted. The escort was also broken, but not the bombers,
which scored 4 hits on the airfield.
On Turn 5, the remaining two P.11s engaged the third Heinkel and
the last Me-110 over the airfield, once again declaring a
turning attack. They rolled quite poorly and missed. The Germans
did not and downed a P.11. Afterwards, in an all too familiar
pattern, the Me-110s bugged out, as did one of the P.11s. The
bombers were able to bomb, for another 2 hits.
On Turn 6, the last He-111 showed up over the airfield and was
attacked, once again in a turning fight, by the last P.11. The
resulting exchange saw two He-111s shot down in return for one
fighter. The P.11s had had enough and broke (cohesion roll 2!).
The bombers prevailed despite their losses (cohesion roll 11),
and bombed, for 8 hits.
Interesting note: Turns out that these bombs added nothing to
the German total, since the other three squadrons had already
scored 6 hits, which already gave the Germans 10 VP for meeting
the airfield's damage value of 6.
Victory:
Germany: enemies shot down 5 VP (5x P.11) + bombing 10 VP = 15
VP
Poland: enemies shot down 9.5 VPs (4x He-111, 1xMe110)
Total: +5.5 VPs, Draw (Perceived German win)
Recommendations/ Questions:
A) Note that Heinkels can generally evade the P.11s, which
further decreases the value of conducting hit & run attacks for
the Poles. They need to turn two bombers back (one is not
enough) and they need the hits, which they can only
realistically get by conducting turning attacks.
B) Radios only mattered in two instances (one Tally, one
Cohesion).
C) Me-110s are still feeling fragile. What if they started in 2
squadrons but had tactical flexibility? That could also force
the Germans to make some tough choices.
D) Scenario bombing rules can be re-written, if desired, to
read: Germans get 10 VP if 3+ Heinkels end their turn unbroken
over the airfield, (5 VP if 2 Heinkels, and 1 VP if one
Heinkel).
E) Time, time, time. It all comes down to the attacks right over
the airfield on Turns 4-5. I will try to set the P.11s closer to
the Germans, but I suspect that that won't help. May consider
moving the airfield back. Even one column would give an extra
turn & allow more set-up time for the Poles.
#Post#: 1152--------------------------------------------------
Re: O02 Operation Wasserkante
By: pilotofficerprune Date: January 24, 2019, 12:58 am
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Good catch on the evasion. When going up against biplanes fast
bombers could sometimes simply outrun the fighters, or make it
hard to close for an attack. Note that the bombers are not
permitted to evade if they are flying a bombing profile, which
means they are more vulnerable in the run-up to the airfield.
If you feel the fighters are too time-constrained, by all means
move the airfield and tell us if that works.
By all means test the Me 110s in squadrons with tactical
flexibility and tell us if that works.
#Post#: 1156--------------------------------------------------
Re: O02 Operation Wasserkante
By: pilotofficerprune Date: January 24, 2019, 4:53 am
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Of the playings so far, we have the following VP outputs:
Chris 1 = 14
Dave 1 = 11
Mustafa 1 = -8.5 (-3.5 if the remaining two bomber squadrons had
bombed)
Mustafa 2 = 5.5
This gives us a range of average results:
5.5 = Mean VPs
6.75 = Mean VPs if in the Mustafa 1 playing the two bomber
squadrons bombed
10.1 = Mean VPs if we discount the Mustafa 1 play-through
I need more test data but I suspect we will be moving the 'draw
window' upward. However, if moving the airfield generates an
extra turn of the interceptors at the bombers, it could shift
the bombing output downwards. Let's do an analysis when we have
more test.
#Post#: 1167--------------------------------------------------
Re: O02 Operation Wasserkante
By: guest30 Date: January 24, 2019, 10:06 am
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[quote author=Lee Brimmicombe-Wood link=topic=65.msg1156#msg1156
date=1548327186]
Of the playings so far, we have the following VP outputs:
Chris 1 = 14
Dave 1 = 11
Mustafa 1 = -8.5 (-3.5 if the remaining two bomber squadrons had
bombed)
Mustafa 2 = 5.5
This gives us a range of average results:
5.5 = Mean VPs
6.75 = Mean VPs if in the Mustafa 1 playing the two bomber
squadrons bombed
10.1 = Mean VPs if we discount the Mustafa 1 play-through
[/quote]
Just a quick note - when I decided that the last two bombers
would turn back in my first play through, they were facing 3
polish squadrons, including the Veteran. Only one Me flight was
left of the escorts, whichwas on the deck and unlikely to make
it to the fight in time. So I would not assume that the only
change in VPs would be in the Germans' favour if I had gamely
marched those bombers forward.
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