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#Post#: 944--------------------------------------------------
O02 Operation Wasserkante
By: niedziak Date: January 18, 2019, 11:58 am
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I didn't seen topic for this scenario, so sorry if I missed it
somewhere.
Before I start playing it I have one question and found two
typos:
1. Bf110C on the counter in OOB is mirrored. Minor thing, but I
wanted to mention it.
2. kapral Andrzej Niewiara, not Neiwara.
Special Rules question:
"3. ...place 2 hits on the target if the squadron is
undisrupted, 1 hit if disrupted."
"5. Treat disruption results against He 111 squadrons as broken
results."
Can then bombers even be disrupted in this scenario?
Best regards
Tom
#Post#: 946--------------------------------------------------
Re: O02 Operation Wasserkante
By: pilotofficerprune Date: January 18, 2019, 1:56 pm
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Hi there, Tom. I haven't created any of the playtest threads
yet. It's one of my tasks for the weekend. Thanks for catching
those errors.
#Post#: 951--------------------------------------------------
Re: O02 Operation Wasserkante
By: pilotofficerprune Date: January 18, 2019, 3:58 pm
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Tom, a quick query on Polish ranks. Are Polish ranks capitalised
as Kapral, as they would be in English, or do they use lower
case, like kapral?
#Post#: 1008--------------------------------------------------
Re: O02 Operation Wasserkante
By: niedziak Date: January 19, 2019, 12:33 pm
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[quote author=Lee Brimmicombe-Wood link=topic=65.msg951#msg951
date=1547848732]
Tom, a quick query on Polish ranks. Are Polish ranks capitalised
as Kapral, as they would be in English, or do they use lower
case, like kapral?
[/quote]
Lower case.
#Post#: 1009--------------------------------------------------
Re: O02 Operation Wasserkante
By: pilotofficerprune Date: January 19, 2019, 12:40 pm
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Roger that. We shall keep them as they are, then.
#Post#: 1082--------------------------------------------------
Re: O02 Operation Wasserkante
By: niedziak Date: January 21, 2019, 5:33 pm
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No problem.
What about the issue with broken bombers I mentioned?
I will start scenario with Terry soon and I'm not sure how we
should proceed.
#Post#: 1087--------------------------------------------------
Re: O02 Operation Wasserkante
By: pilotofficerprune Date: January 22, 2019, 12:24 am
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Do you have the most recent version of the Origins file that I
updated at the weekend? That fixed the problem.
I'm not sure what you mean by not being sure how to proceed. The
first few posts in this thread are a guide to my preferred
process:
HTML https://airbattle.createaforum.com/general-discussion/wlorigins-test-status/
#Post#: 1105--------------------------------------------------
Re: O02 Operation Wasserkante
By: chief2000 Date: January 22, 2019, 11:28 am
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Scenario: O05 Operation Wasserkante
Version: v0.1
Playtesters: Chris Bryans, Ian Hames (Poles)/Jonah Jones,
Nathanael Boyd (Germans)
Report: Polish interceptors began in the clouds directly below
the middle of the formation. I made a mistake on the climb rate
(used 3 instead of 1) and it took the Poles two turns to get to
the level of the Heinkels who were well-ahead of the Pzls. By
this time three of the escorts had tallied them and dove on the
two rearward Pzl squadrons, doubling up on each one. Attacks
against bombers unsuccessful. Escorts downed four Pzl-11s for
no losses. The Poles discussed splitting squadrons and then
failed to do so upon tallying the Heinkels.
Victory: German bombing 10 VPs + enemies shot down 4 VPs
Poles: 0
Total: +14 VPs, German Victory
Recommendations: None so far. I will play it solo and file
another report. So far, the scenario seems to be well-balanced.
Had the Poles split the squadrons and climbed per the ADC they
might have succeeded in disrupting/breaking the Heinkels and
keeping the foremost escorts busy. This was the first time
that the three other players, all in their late teens, had
played WL and all agreed that this is an amazingly fun game and
well-worth their time.
Chris Bryans
#Post#: 1107--------------------------------------------------
Re: O02 Operation Wasserkante
By: chief2000 Date: January 22, 2019, 12:06 pm
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Forgot one thing under Recommendations (addressed elsewhere):
Need two more Me-110 flights since the scenario calls for four
but there are only two in the countermix from WL-Victories.
#Post#: 1113--------------------------------------------------
Re: O02 Operation Wasserkante
By: guest30 Date: January 22, 2019, 11:09 pm
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Scenario: 002 Operation Wasserkante
Version: 0.1 (Origins 19Jan19)
ADC versions: He-111 v2.0, Me-110C-4 v2.1, P.11c v0.1
Rules version: 25Nov18
Playtesters: Mustafa (solo)
Report: The Germans setup two Me-110 flights below the lead
bomber, figuring that the Poles would likely not attack from
above given their starting positions. This is also where the
German placed their Veteran / Experten (into the same flight).
The two other Me110s started below the trailing bombers as a
reserve.
The Poles also split, with 3 squadrons spread out over the
airfield and fourth at the westernmost edge of the cloud cover.
The plan was for the airfield squadrons to climb up to the
bombers' altitude and make head-on attacks out of the sun to
minimize escort intervention. The lone squadron underneath the
Germans would skulk in the clouds until the bombers passed by
and make late attacks in an effort to pick them off from behind,
hopefully after the escorts had become entangled with the other
defenders.
The Polish plan seemed to fall apart fairy quickly. On Turn 2,
the German Veteran/Experte tallied the foremost P.11 squadron as
it climbed up from the clouds. The P.11 squadron tailing the
formation was also spotted even though it had stayed in the
clouds (tally roll of 6). To make matters worse, only one of the
Poles successfully tallied back -- the P.11 that would soon be
the target of the Veteran Me-110. The latter managed to evade
combat this turn by continuing to climb (this is where the
decision to start the 110s low may have hurt, but if they had
started higher, then they probably could not have tallied the
P.11s that early). The other P.11s had no idea they were about
to be attacked, but luck was with the Poles! The Germans were
not on their game (broken clouds also hindered their attack) and
missed entirely with a roll of 5 (down to 3 due to the clouds)
whereas the Poles rolled an 11 (down to 9) to score a hit, which
unfortunately did not result in any success (damage roll of 1).
But it was the Poles who were disrupted (rolled low enough that
the lack of a radio did not matter), while the Me-110s stayed
together. The Poles then decided to dogfight and were lucky
enough once again to force it on the 110s through exceptional
die rolls (5 vs. 1).
On Turn 3, two P.11s were able to tally the Heinkels while the
third missed its roll. The remaining lead 110 escort also failed
to tally despite a desperate radio call from their leader
(rolled a 1). The movement phase saw the Poles setup two
separate head-on attacks on the two leading Heinkels, only one
of which involved the escort. The result was one He-111 shot
down in each combat for the loss of a P.11 in the fight
involving the veteran Me-110s. The second He-111 squadron
(attacked by the veteran Polish squadron) decided it had had
enough and turned back. In the meanwhile, there were still no
casualties in the dogfight, despite each side scoring a hit, but
the Poles broke while the 110s continued to hold together.
On Turn 4, a massive combat developed over the airfield, with
all remaining Polish squadrons attacking the remaining lead
bomber, and all three remaining Me-110 escorts (one was off
chasing the broken Polish squadron under the clouds). Because
one of the Poles satisfied the head-on criteria, I could have
resolved the entire combat as a head-on by picking that squadron
as the primary (See 10.2.1), despite everyone else piling in
pell mell from all directions. But that P.11 squadron was not
Veteran / Experte, so I decided to skip the head-on this time
around so that the Poles could benefit from their best pilots.
The Poles set-up a tail chase instead (turning fight, because of
the 2 speed difference between the 110 and the P.11). The
combat rolls were again in the Poles' favor (10 vs 5) and the
result was a massacre -- 2 Heinkels and one 110 downed for no
losses to the Poles (not even any hits). The disaster was
completed when two of the Me110s broke, including the Veteran
flight and the flight with the German experte, with only one of
the P.11 squadrons suffering a disruption. To add insult to
injury, the 110s pursuing the Poles at low altitude also broke
off contact after missing miserably (combat roll of 3, followed
by cohesion loss).
I called it at this time, seeing as how the Germans were now
facing an impossible task -- it is fair to say, I think that the
trailing Heinkels would have turned back after seeing the lead
Heinkels run, along with all but one escort.
Victory:
Germany: enemies shot down 1 VP (1x P.11)
Poland: enemies shot down 9.5 VPs (4x He-111, 1xMe110)
Total: -8.5 VPs, Polish Victory (Perceived Polish massacre)
Recommendations/ Questions:
A) Is it just me or is there a Heinkel squadron missing? (I had
three, letters S, T, and U. I substituted a Do217 as the fourth.
I am thinking that I may have lost the fourth He-111).
B) I am unclear why we are using the bombing rules. There is no
flak, and we don't roll for hits, and any distinction between
disruption / broken does not seem to matter. Would the scenario
be any different if we awarded VP for any undisrupted Heinkel
that makes it to the airfield? This may matter for newer players
who may have a hard time understanding what parts of the
advanced bombing rules apply, especially since it turns out that
the answer is "very little."
C) It seems a little weird to have the Poles have Veteran
status, and even weirder to give them an Experte, given that
this is the first day of the war. Perhaps this reflects my
ignorance of history but where would the Polish pilots have
gained combat experience (let alone the kills to qualify for
Experte status)?
D) Scenario seems to do what it says on the tin. I think,
however, that the Poles' wide discretion to set-up anywhere
between D and S is a bit of a mirage. If they start too far
back, they won't make it to the bombers in time. Start too far
forward, and they will miss the bombers if they don't climb, or
the escorts will get them if they do. And climb they must.
There seems to be a sweet spot, which happens to be right over
(and maybe a bit to the east of) the airfield.
E) The unlucky rolls did not help, but the Me-110 flights are
very fragile. If that's the intent, then that's fine. I should
also experiment with starting them higher and try to get escort
reactions, but that would not help if the Poles keep making
head-on attacks. Hard to tell balance at this point, needs more
plays.
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