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#Post#: 859--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tally order in combat
By: pilotofficerprune Date: January 13, 2019, 3:06 am
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[quote author=Elias Nordling link=topic=58.msg858#msg858
date=1547362326]I'm not sure what my preferred wording is, but
if you read the first para of 10.1.2, it already answers who's
the attacker for all situations except dogfights. If you flip
through the rules to find the answer, you might just read that
paragraph and think "ok, that's it".[/quote]
This is why I've been quite antsy about changing the rule. Until
you brought up the problem of people switching tallies to change
the move order, this was a good one-size-fits-all rule.
[quote author=Elias Nordling link=topic=58.msg858#msg858
date=1547362326]The second paragraph then sort of goes "However,
there is an exception when..."[/quote]
Agreed, but I'm really not sure what to do on this at the
moment. Maybe I need to sleep on it more.
I think this new text does fix the problem and in some ways
streamlines the rule. but yes, we go from two cases (this one
for all situations other than dogfights) to three (this one for
movement, this one for non-movement and a similar one for
dogfights).
This is why I was casting an eye at the rule for assigning
tallies at the end of fights, since fixing that would make your
move-order-realignment problem go away. But I can't think of a
solution.
#Post#: 934--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tally order in combat
By: pilotofficerprune Date: January 17, 2019, 10:42 am
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Looking at this problem again, the problem is really the change
from the old 7.2.2 (6) rule of the v2.0 rules to the 'simpler'
7.2.4 rule of v2.1. If we go back to something closer to the old
rule, do we fix the problem?
#Post#: 939--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tally order in combat
By: Elias Nordling Date: January 17, 2019, 12:48 pm
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I have no idea what you are talking about since I try not to
memorize obsolete rules versions :-)
#Post#: 1183--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tally order in combat
By: Elias Nordling Date: January 25, 2019, 12:35 am
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Here's another thought about tallying in combat: There really
should be a cross reference to this rule in the combat rules.
First, that's where I always look for it without finding it.
Second, the combat rules are laid out as step by step
walkthrough of air combat, so without this rule referenced here,
it is easy to forget this step.
The rule is really well hidden, I keep looking for Tallies and
Combat, but there is no such rule :-) You sort of have to know
this is a case of automatic tally to find it. It would make
sense to me if the second paragraph got its own 7.2.4.1 number
and was called Tallies after combat.
#Post#: 1184--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tally order in combat
By: pilotofficerprune Date: January 25, 2019, 12:45 am
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Okay, I'll take a look at this.
#Post#: 1185--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tally order in combat
By: Elias Nordling Date: January 25, 2019, 1:22 am
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While you're at it, 15.4 badly needs a cross reference to 4.7
too. Or just move the effects on bombing tho 15.4 and add the
cross reference to 4.7. The latter makes the rule easier to use.
#Post#: 1186--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tally order in combat
By: Vincent Lefavrais Date: January 25, 2019, 2:13 am
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[quote author=Elias Nordling link=topic=58.msg858#msg858
date=1547362326]
I'm not sure what my preferred wording is, but if you read the
first para of 10.1.2, it already answers who's the attacker for
all situations except dogfights. If you flip through the rules
to find the answer, you might just read that paragraph and think
"ok, that's it".
The second paragraph then sort of goes "However, there is an
exception when...". It might not be a big problem, but it
bothers me somewhat because you spend a lot of time int the
rules trying to find the one crucial paragraph. I thought I had
thought of a wording that avoided this. But as you pointed out
it created an anomaly.
[/quote]
Then wouldn't merging paragraphs 1 and 2 solve the problem? (see
below, with some rewording; and maybe the bracketed parts might
be deleted, if there is need to save space)
10.1.2 Mutual Attack
If both sides are fighters which have tallied each other, the
side [with the squadron] scheduled to move last in the previous
Movement Phase’s move order [6.1, 6.1.1, 6.1.2] is the attacker
and its opponent is the defender. EXCEPTION: If all squadrons
began the Movement Phase in the same square, the side [including
the squadron] with the highest basic speed value is the
attacker; in case of a tie, roll randomly to determine the
attacker.
If in a dogfight [10.8], the side [including the squadron] with
the highest basic turn value is the attacker. In case of a tie,
roll randomly to determine the attacker.
(I have a feeling I'm missing something, since this seems so
simple one of you would have thought about it already if it
solved the problem... Apologies if this is so.)
#Post#: 1187--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tally order in combat
By: Elias Nordling Date: January 25, 2019, 4:27 am
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No that's a perfectly fine solution to me! :-)
#Post#: 1251--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tally order in combat
By: pilotofficerprune Date: January 27, 2019, 6:02 am
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I tried Vincent's suggestion, but it didn't quite work for me on
the page. Here's an alternative:
10.1.2
If both sides are fighters which have tallied each other, the
side scheduled to move last in the previous Movement Phase’s
move order [6.1, 6.1.1, 6.1.2] is the attacker and its opponent
is the defender.
EXCEPTION 1: If all squadrons began the previous Movement Phase
in the same square, the side with the squadron with the highest
basic speed value is the attacking side. In case of a tie, roll
randomly to determine the attacker.
EXCEPTION 2: If in a dogfight [10.8], the squadron with the
highest basic turn value is the attacking side. In case of a
tie, roll randomly to determine the attacker.
#Post#: 1252--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tally order in combat
By: Elias Nordling Date: January 27, 2019, 8:17 am
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The big vomd EXCEPTION works for me.
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