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#Post#: 2743--------------------------------------------------
Re: Counter Sheets
DIR By: pilotofficerprune
Date: July 6, 2019, 1:38 pm
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Thanks, Pete.
#Post#: 3207--------------------------------------------------
Re: Counter Sheets
DIR By: pilotofficerprune
Date: September 25, 2019, 1:44 am
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Okay, Rock posted me these two posts, suggesting something has
gone right off the rails with the counters:
--- Quote ---
> Hi Lee,
>
> Actually was working on that scenario (O13) this morning and
in fact providing the 3rd Ki-27 squadron in the WL:O countermix
is NOT sufficient to allow play of O13 without ownership of WL:B
- O13 also calls for 2x Ki-27 flight counters, which are only
available in WL:B.
>
> I've just finished checking the WL:O countermix against the
scenarios and there are some other "countermix hiccoughs":
> (1) I cannot find that the Chinese I-16 flight counter is
used in any WL:O scenario; if so it looks like there might be a
second "surplus" counter available.
> (2) The German OB in scenario O11 puts a real strain on the
bomber IDs:
> (a) the He 111 squadrons in WL:V2 are "S", "T", "U"; there
are no extra German ones in WL:O.
> (b) the Ju 52 squadrons in WL:V2 are "V", "W", "X, "Y"; there
are no extra German ones in WL:O.
> (c) the Ju 87 squadrons in WL:V2 are "S", "T", "U", "W", "X"
(i.e., all have IDs that conflict with either the He 111s or Ju
52s); there are no extra German ones in WL:O.
> (d) the Ju 88 squadrons in WL:V2 are "S", "T", "U", and the
Ju 88 squadrons in WL:O are "W", "X", "Y" (i.e., all have IDs
that conflict with either the He 111s or Ju 52s).
> (e) although Pete's spreadsheet shows a Ju 87 squadron "R"
and a Ju 88 squadron "Z" as included in the WL:O countermix
these counters do not exist in the current countermix.
> (3) Scenario O16 calls for 3x He 51 squadrons but only two
such counters are provided in the WL:O countermix.
>
> Unfortunately even if the 3rd Ki-27 squadron and the Chinese
I-16 flight in the WL:O countermix can be replaced by other
counters it looks like we would still need to free up a third
counter to cover Ju 87 squadron "R", Ju 88 squadron "Z", and a
third He 51 squadron ("L"?). I would suggest giving priority to
the needs of scenario O11; perhaps scenario O16 could be revised
to replace the 3rd He 51 squadron with two flights (which are
already in the countermix).
>
> Ciao,
>
> Rick
--- End Quote ---
Also:
--- Quote ---
> Hi Lee,
>
> I was looking through the playtest reports for O16 and it
seems that the scenario is only supposed to have 2x He 51
squadrons, not 3x as currently written - I'm guessing that when
it was switched from 3x He 51 flights to 2x He 51 squadrons the
counter artwork was changed but the number of units was not,
which would explain why there are only 2x He 51 squadron
counters in the mix. Simplifies the issues I discussed above.
>
> Rick
--- End Quote ---
The He 51 issue seems to be a problem when we transitioned from
3 x He 51 flights in scenario O16 to 2 x He 51 squadrons.
Somehow, I simply didn't change a number, and here we are.
That's easily fixable and I'll do that in the next release.
#Post#: 3208--------------------------------------------------
Re: Counter Sheets
DIR By: pilotofficerprune
Date: September 25, 2019, 1:51 am
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A thornier problem is when I ditched Ju 87B sqn ID ‘R’, and
German Ju 88 sqn, ID ‘Z’, to add Spanish Nationalist He 51 sqn,
IDs ‘J’, ‘K’ back in July. I seem to have done this with
reference to the campaign but may have missed that these
counters were also used in scenario O11.
Rick also brings up the issue of the orphaned Chinese I-16
flight. I have a suspicion that if I check back on one of the
early versions of the Origins book, I may find it. It may well
have 'levelled up' to a squadron at some stage, possibly by
accident. A big questions are 'when' and 'was the scenario
tested in that form'.
I won't be able to deal with some of these things until the
weekend. However, I'm minded to fix the Ki-27 problem that Rick
raises by simply preventing the Ki-27 wing in O13 from splitting
and squadrons.
#Post#: 3210--------------------------------------------------
Re: Counter Sheets
DIR By: pilotofficerprune
Date: September 25, 2019, 1:55 am
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If I were to rename the Ju 88s in WL:O from W, X, Y to X, Y, Z,
do we start to run into any problems in the Malta campaign?
#Post#: 3211--------------------------------------------------
Re: Counter Sheets
DIR By: Elias Nordling
Date: September 25, 2019, 3:23 am
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--- Quote ---
> Rick also brings up the issue of the orphaned Chinese I-16
flight. I have a suspicion that if I check back on one of the
early versions of the Origins book, I may find it. It may well
have 'levelled up' to a squadron at some stage, possibly by
accident. A big questions are 'when' and 'was the scenario
tested in that form'.
--- End Quote ---
I checked my old setup files for Zet, Wuhan and Enter the Zero,
and all have one I16 squadron, so that's what I signed off the
scenarios with.
#Post#: 3217--------------------------------------------------
Re: Counter Sheets
DIR By: pilotofficerprune
Date: September 27, 2019, 2:32 am
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Note for Falcons countersheet:
(1) We could do with a new MiG-3 flight that deconflicts IDs I,
J, K and L so that the MiG-3 flight can be used in plays of the
Drive on Kiev campaign.
(2) Deconflict Bf 109F and MC.202 squadrons G and H, as well as
Bf 109F squadron and MC.202 flight I. This is for ease of play
of the Malta Spitfires scenario.
(3) Rick has noted that we lack He 111E counters in German
colours, for the Czech scenarios in Origins. He's right, this is
an oversight, and we should consider three such squadrons for
Falcons.
#Post#: 3218--------------------------------------------------
Re: Counter Sheets
DIR By: pilotofficerprune
Date: September 27, 2019, 3:02 am
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Okay, so the counters available for the campaign are:
Ju 87 German (need x 3) - S, T, U, W, X
Ju 88 (need x 3) - S, T, U, W, X, Y
SM.79 (need x 2) - X, Y
Ju 87 Italian (need x 1) - Y, Z
Given that Ju 88s and SM.79s cannot fly in the same raid, this
deconflicts perfectly. However, there may be a way to make a
change that presenves the campaign and helps scenario O11.
(1) Let's change the new Ju 88 counter IDs from W, X, Y to L, W,
X. (Yes, L! This is necessary to deconflict with the fighters.)
(2) It's probably a good idea to list in the campaign a
recommendation as to the counters to pick so as to help the
players:
Ju 87 German - pick S, T, U
Ju 88 - pick L, W, X
SM.79 - pick X, Y
Ju 87 Italian - pick Z
That provides a perfect deconfliction.
(3) If the Chinese I-16 flight in the countersheet can be done
away with, we replace it with a German Ju 87 squadron with ID R.
*
I believe this fixes all our ills. can someone sanity-check this
scheme for me?
#Post#: 3231--------------------------------------------------
Re: Counter Sheets
DIR By: pilotofficerprune
Date: September 27, 2019, 5:47 pm
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FYI on review it looks as if the I-16 flight in Wuhan Clan
transmuted into a squadron when I inserted the final art. I'm
still considering what to do about it, but I might leave this as
it is, to free up a counter slot for a Ju 87B counter 'R'.
I'm going to sleep on this and see if there are any alternative
schemes in the morning.
#Post#: 3234--------------------------------------------------
Re: Counter Sheets
DIR By: Rick McKown
Date: September 27, 2019, 7:12 pm
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Hi Lee,
Suppose you changed the IDs for the WL:O Ju 88 counters to "R",
"V", and "W", and the ID for the (newly minted) WL:O Ju 87
counter to "Z"? A Ju 88 carrying ID "R" will appear less
jarring than one carrying ID "L" as it simply extends the alpha
sequence back by one letter (so the six Ju 88 squadrons will be
in sequence "R" through "W"), while a Ju 87 carrying ID "Z" is
perfectly normal.
Then, in the Malta Campaign the Axis could use:
- the German Ju 87 counters "S", "T", and "U" (from WL:V2);
- the Ju 88 counters "R", "V", and "W" (from WL:O);
- the SM.79 counters "X" and "Y" (from WL:V2); and
- the Italian Ju 87 counter "Z" (from WL:V2).
For O11, the Germans could use:
- the He 111 counters "S", "T", and "U" (from WL:V2);
- the Ju 52 counters "V", "W", "X", and "Y" (from WL:V2);
- the Ju 88 counter "R" (from WL:O); and
- the Ju 87 counter "Z" (from WL:O).
No conflicts.
Rick
#Post#: 3236--------------------------------------------------
Re: Counter Sheets
DIR By: pilotofficerprune
Date: September 28, 2019, 3:01 am
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Okay, I am actively considering two plans.
Both these plans have common elements to address some conflict
issues:
COMMON ELEMENTS
Scenarios O10, O25 - Add an Airfield counter on the back of the
Malta campaign turn marker
Scenario O13 On a Little Street in Singapore - Disallow Ki-27
splitting
Scenario O16 Target: Madrid - Reduce He 51 squadrons from 3 to 2
Scenario O23 Operation Sunrise - Heavy Flak reduced from B to A
This leaves us with two plans:
PLAN A
(1) O11 and Campaign - Ju 88s in Origins relettered from W, X, Y
to W, X, L
(2) O06 The Wuhan Clan - I-16 sqn restored to being I-16 flight
(3) O11 Hunters in the Sky - Reduce He 111 forces from 3
squadrons to 2 squadrons
Pros:
(a) This deconflicts the campaign and O11
(b) This allows us to keep the counter variety for Chinese I-16s
for future scenario makers
(c) Given that there are already 5 x German Ju 87 squadrons in
the countermix this saves us adding another one
Cons:
(a) Must recheck the balance of O06 and O11
(b) O11 may be impacted by the loss of a bomber squadron
(c) Ugly ID progression for the new Ju 88s
PLAN B
(1) O11 and Campaign - Ju 88s in Origins relettered from W, X, Y
to W, X, R (per Rick’s suggestion)
(2) Countersheet - replace Chinese I-16 flight with new German
Ju 87 squadron Z
Pros:
(a) This deconflicts the campaign and O11
(b) No rechecks or rebalances of O06 and O011 required
(c) Less ugly ID progression for Ju 88s
Cons:
(a) Reduces counter variety for Chinese I-16s
(b) Adds yet another Ju 87 squadron
*
I’m open to everyone’s thoughts on this.
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