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DIR Return to: Wing Leader Rules Discussion
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#Post#: 214--------------------------------------------------
Bomber climbing & diving
By: Gordon Christie Date: September 25, 2018, 8:43 am
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Reading through the collected playtest reports for Eagles I
think I begin to see some significant differences in the way
Andrew and I play compared to Elias in particular. I get the
sense that Elias has bombers claim or dive considerably more
than we do. I think intuitively we have tended to assume that
medium and heavy bombers in particular didn't do much climbing
or diving in combat, and consequently we have tended to default
to having these bombers cruise across the map at their
starting/entering altitude without really seeking to use the
tactical potential implicit in rule 15.2.1.
My sense of the history is that for medium and heavy bombers
altitude changes in the combat area were excessively rare, and
I'd advocate for prohibiting altitude change for medium and
heavy bombers not flying a bombing profile (with SSRs allowing
it where appropriate). I think this better reflects the history,
and it has the further advantage of beginning to discriminate a
bit between medium and heavy bombers compared to
light/dive/torpedo/fighter bombers (which should I think have
the potential to change altitude a bit more readily, reflecting
their somewhat different tactical employment and – in general –
somewhat lesser reliance on close formations for defence,
together with the fact that at least some of these aircraft
possessed a bit more excess power).
Cheers
Gordon
#Post#: 216--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bomber climbing & diving
By: Elias Nordling Date: September 25, 2018, 12:52 pm
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Actually I started to do this earlier this year after I had that
trick pulled on me in Battle for Budapest :-)
#Post#: 219--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bomber climbing & diving
By: pilotofficerprune Date: September 25, 2018, 3:29 pm
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The origin of this rule was the scenario for Cactus Thorns,
where the Japanese came in to Guadalcanal at high altitude and
descended to their bombing height.
On the whole I agree that heavy bombers, and particularly the
big American bomber boxes, should not be changing altitude. I
have started managing this through scenario special rules.
That's said, I'm not sure about adding this to the mediums,
where again I return to the behaviour seen in Cactus Thorns.
#Post#: 225--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bomber climbing & diving
By: Elias Nordling Date: September 26, 2018, 1:54 am
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Descending has been in the rules for a while. It was climbing
that took me by surprise.
#Post#: 228--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bomber climbing & diving
By: pilotofficerprune Date: September 26, 2018, 2:02 am
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I think climbing came up in the context of flying around cloud.
Plus it was seen as a simplification of the rule.
#Post#: 230--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bomber climbing & diving
By: Elias Nordling Date: September 26, 2018, 2:06 am
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It is a simplification. It also adds some interesting decision
making.
#Post#: 245--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bomber climbing & diving
By: Gordon Christie Date: September 27, 2018, 1:05 pm
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My concern is the potential for sleaze here. I can see bomber
formations sliding down into cloud telepathically knowing that
fighters around and also descending to unrealistic altitudes
knowing that flak around the target is relatively light.
My other significant concern is that this just doesn't map to
accounts of medium and heavy bomber behaviour that I have read.
In the Battle of Britain for example I have a very clear
impression that Luftwaffe bombers rarely changed altitude
significantly, with the possible exception of a (very) shallow
dive towards the coast after bombing. Similarly in North Africa
the Desert Air Force mediums are repeatedly noted by the Germans
as cruising steadily over the battlefield and pattern bombing
targets from medium altitude.
I think the circumstances in Cactus Thorns over Guadalcanal
where much more of the exception, and perhaps might be better
handled by an SSR.
Cheers
Gordon
#Post#: 248--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bomber climbing & diving
By: pilotofficerprune Date: September 27, 2018, 2:23 pm
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Let's say, hypothetically, that we bar altitude changes
altogether. What effect does that have on scenarios? Are there
any that become broken because of it?
#Post#: 257--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bomber climbing & diving
By: Elias Nordling Date: September 28, 2018, 3:16 am
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Probably not many from earlier sets. Possibly a few in Eagles.
#Post#: 261--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bomber climbing & diving
By: pilotofficerprune Date: September 28, 2018, 4:51 am
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Okay, so let's special rule this where appropriate. Please watch
out for scenarios that need such a special rule.
Update: I have been doing this exercise of adding a no-altitude
change special rule for some of the scenarios so far. There are
a few in Victories, not many in Eagles and a surprising number
in Blitz. The biggest usage is actually in the new scenarios
I've been laying out for the third expansion.
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