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#Post#: 73--------------------------------------------------
E16 Battle Over Budapest
By: pilotofficerprune Date: September 12, 2018, 9:33 am
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Date: 10 May
Playtester: Peter Wagner/Elias Nordling
Elias and I just finished our first play of Battle Over
Budapest. I took Americans and he took Hungarians. We opted to
not use the Optional Rule. All American Veteran markers were
assigned to the lead P-38s.
Final American Score: 32.5VPs (24 from bombing)
Final Hungarian Score: 9VPs (2 bombers and 2 fighters)
The Hungarians interceptors managed to engage the B-29s on three
separate combats but only managed to down two P-38s (3VPs) at a
cost of five Me210s and a Bf109 (8.5 VPs). One of the combats
resulted in a Disrupted bomber squadron. The two bomber losses
were from flak. So engaging the bombers was more hurtful to the
Hungarians and they would have done better to just run for home
at the beginning of the scenario.
American bombing was above average with three squadrons rolling
10 11 and 12 and scoring 25% hits. All together, 20 hits were
scored on the Factory (just shy of an additional 12 VPs).
Had the Hungarians chosen to RTB at the beginning of the
scenario, the Americans would have still fallen at least 30VPs
short of their victory threshold, so this matrix needs to be
heavily adjusted down. There also needs to be some incentive for
the Hungarians to attempt to engage the bombers . . . say
awarding 3VPs for every combat involving a bomber squadron.
Elias and I are starting another game and switching sides so
we’ll see how this goes. Perhaps giving the Veteran markers to
the bombers would help the bombing, but that will only make a -3
DRM become a -2 DRM for bombing.
#Post#: 130--------------------------------------------------
Re: E16 Battle Over Budapest
By: pilotofficerprune Date: September 15, 2018, 1:05 pm
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In the absence of more test, the only change I'll make for now
is to drop the 'draw window' and the set-up of the Bf 109Gs, to
drop them one altitude level.
#Post#: 155--------------------------------------------------
Re: E16 Battle Over Budapest
By: pilotofficerprune Date: September 17, 2018, 4:26 am
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[quote author=Elias Nordling link=topic=33.msg154#msg154
date=1537176095]
From my first playing of Budapest, I'd say it needs an incentive
to attack the bombers at all and not just abort, much like The
Last samurai and Things to Come.
[/quote]
Is this because of the VPs that can be racked up against the
P-38s? Or because the draw window is not low enough, compared to
the likely bombing results?
#Post#: 157--------------------------------------------------
Re: E16 Battle Over Budapest
By: Elias Nordling Date: September 17, 2018, 4:58 am
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It's because the interceptors are likely to lose more points in
lost aircraft than they gain from causing losses and
disruptions.
#Post#: 158--------------------------------------------------
Re: E16 Battle Over Budapest
By: pilotofficerprune Date: September 17, 2018, 7:11 am
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Looking at the scenario, I can see the problem is simply one of
numbers. The Hungarians are completely outnumbered and don't
have any qualitative benefits to make up for it.
I know that the Hungaran order of battle is a fixed point in
the design of this scenario, but what if we drastically changed
the opposition? What if we simply halved the American escort and
sweep squadrons, and the American Veteran markers?
(I also notice that the American sweep wing is currently not set
up like a wing, so that needs fixing, also.)
#Post#: 159--------------------------------------------------
Re: E16 Battle Over Budapest
By: Elias Nordling Date: September 17, 2018, 7:20 am
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That would of course change things, but it would look a bot like
fudging. If the bombers are also reduced in numbers it would
look more like focus on a part of the formation, but I'm not
sure it is historically valid.
#Post#: 162--------------------------------------------------
Re: E16 Battle Over Budapest
By: pilotofficerprune Date: September 18, 2018, 3:08 am
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I'd like to get Andrew's thoughts on this, but I don't disagree
with the idea of shaving the bomber formation down sightly.
(Maybe by a couple of squadrons?)
The problem is one of raw numbers: 4x Hungarian fighter units up
against 6x American fighters, and the latter has tactical
flexibility. The Sweep group alone can easily tie up the entire
interceptor force.
You could certainly play games with weather to try and make it
hard for the sweep or escort to catch the interceptors, but I
can't help feeling that a first step is simply to cut the
American forces down.
Andrew, do you have any thoughts?
#Post#: 165--------------------------------------------------
Re: E16 Battle Over Budapest
By: Andrew Brazier Date: September 18, 2018, 3:40 am
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Looking at the scenario, I think we could do one or more of
three things:
1. Cut down the number of P-38 sweeps to 2 squadrons.
2. Remove tactical flexibility from the P-38s.
3. Cut down the bombers to 4 squadrons.
I'm a bit reluctant to trim the bombers as it was a pretty large
raid which the Hungarians really had very little chance of
stopping. If we reduce the fighter force that should give the
Hungarians a bit more of a chance. Playing with the cloud setup
might help as well. :)
#Post#: 166--------------------------------------------------
Re: E16 Battle Over Budapest
By: pilotofficerprune Date: September 18, 2018, 4:06 am
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My thinking is as follows: simply halve the two groups of
Americans, to 1x squadron for escort and 2x sweep. But keep the
tactical flexibility for the Yanks, and keep the same number of
bombers.
The single escort would be stretched covering the whole bomber
formation, while the sweep would have to work harder to tie up
the interceptors.
Finally, I want to look at the cloud scheme again to see if it
can be made to help the interceptors.
I suggest we pump the brakes on testing this one until the
changes go in.
#Post#: 167--------------------------------------------------
Re: E16 Battle Over Budapest
By: Andrew Brazier Date: September 18, 2018, 5:06 am
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OK, let's go with that. :) Much as I'd love to add more
Hungarians I've stretched their OOB already. :)
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