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#Post#: 7240--------------------------------------------------
S21 Gunships!
By: Elias Nordling Date: December 22, 2020, 2:06 pm
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v1.1
Player: Elias Nordling (solo)
My first instinct was that this scenario has multiple problems
that makes it due for a complete revision, but then I had a
weird and entertaining game and now I'm not so sure.
The problems are three:
1) It is uncomfortably big
2) There is an obvious Japanese strategy with noting the US can
do to counter it
3) The VP-levels are off
Because of 3, I felt you might as well do something about the
other two, but after playing I'm not so sure they really are
problems. 1 is of course a matter of taste, and in the end it
didn't feel as big and crowded as I thought it would. As for 2,
the obvious strategy is to gang up all the Japanese fighters on
the force with the least fighter protection. In my game, they
were spectacularly successful at removing the fighter
opposition, and then started grinding at the bombers. The
bombers proved resilient thanks to two of them being veterans,
however, and they only took one cohesion hit. Meanwhile, no
fighter opposition freed up the other fighter force for strafing
and they did a pass suppressing the heavy flak to give the
bombers a cleaner run.
Then a strange dance started, as the Japanese fighters stood off
and watched, reluctant do engage another fighter force after
exhausting itself. The US fighters also hovered over the
airfields, standing guard over the strafing bombers. After the
bombers were safely off, the fighters went in for a final
strafing pass then hurried off, the Japanese waving at them.
Incredibly, only 2 Japanese fighters were lost.
Altogether, it was quite an interesting narrative and I'm not so
sure I want to undo it anymore. Also, I'm not completely
convinced this is the obviously best strategy, as using up the
ammo of the Lightnings might also shift the score from strafing
quite a bit. The VPs are another matter.
US: Bombing: 43 (x2 Airfield, x2 Airfield, x1 Hvy Flak), 2
Zeroes: 45
Japan: 15 Gunships, 9 Lightnings: 24
TOTAL: 21
Japanese massive win
Comment: The US were one strafing hit from another 10 points
from the airfield, give them that and it is 31 points, still a
massive Japanese win. Also, the exchange ratio in the air!
Still, I think the VP:s reflect the larger bomb rates of the 1st
generation ADC:s. I'd like to see what Gordon and Andrew think
of this one now, but at the very least it still needs VP
re-calibration.
#Post#: 7242--------------------------------------------------
Re: S21 Gunships!
By: Elias Nordling Date: December 22, 2020, 3:59 pm
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I forgot to count 1,5 VP for the Lightnings, which is an
additional 4,5 points off for the US.
#Post#: 7243--------------------------------------------------
Re: S21 Gunships!
By: pilotofficerprune Date: December 23, 2020, 5:12 am
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Okay. Sounds like we need to get a few plays on this.
#Post#: 7245--------------------------------------------------
Re: S21 Gunships!
By: Gordon Christie Date: December 23, 2020, 5:30 am
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We’re hopeful of catching up a bit more over Christmas via
VASSAL so we’ll look at Home Islands first then Gunships. I did
do a quick pass on the scenario book & thought Gunships was
probably one of the remaining ones worth a serious look.
That’s plan A but we can modify if there are higher priorities
Cheers
Gordon
#Post#: 7249--------------------------------------------------
Re: S21 Gunships!
By: pilotofficerprune Date: December 23, 2020, 6:09 am
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That's fine. But unless you find that Gunships is actually
broken, I'd rather focus on getting a better balance score for
it.
#Post#: 7250--------------------------------------------------
Re: S21 Gunships!
By: Gordon Christie Date: December 23, 2020, 7:05 am
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That’s fine. Home Islands then Rat Patrol first
Cheers
Gordon
#Post#: 7292--------------------------------------------------
Re: S21 Gunships!
By: Jean Foisy Date: December 31, 2020, 11:29 am
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Scenario: S21 Gunships! - Test 01
Version: v1.1
Playtester: Jean Foisy [Solo]
Plans:
- The US plan was to protect the Gunships at all costs and use
some P-38 as Flak Suppression.
- The Gunships will use Flak Suppression before bombing.
- The Japanese plan was to use 201st Kokutai to intercept the
Left edge attackers and use the other interceptors on the Right
edge.
- The Flak will use Direct fire.
Report:
- Game lasted 11 turns
- There was no vector height error for the duration
- Axis 2 x Veteran and 2 x Experten counters were assigned to
201 Kokutai and the last 2 Veterans were assigned to the
remaining Wing Leaders
- The poor Zero's Firepower and poor protection was of concern
to the Japanese side.
- Allied Veteran were assigned the Gunships, 2 per attacking
force.
- 2 Allied Experten were given to the Right Escort and the last
one to the Left Escort.
- The P-38 managed to tie in Dogfight a great number of Zeros to
diminish the threat to the Gunships but in so doing they put
themselves at risk because of the Zero's superior Turn Rating.
Victory:
ALLIED VPs:
AXIS A/C shot down: 18 x A6M5a: 18 VPs
ALLIED bombing Results:
- 20 Hits on O-0 Airfield (Fatal Damage): 30 VPs
- 20 Hits on L-0 Airfield (Fatal Damage): 30 VPs
- 2 Hits on K-0 Hvy Flak (Minor Damage): 2 VPs
- 5 Hits on P-0 Hvy Flak (Heavy Damage): 3 VPs
- 7 Hits on O-0 Lt Flak (Heavy Damage): 2 VPs
ALLIED TOTAL = 85 VPs
AXIS VPs:
ALLIED A/C shot down: 9 x P-38 (14 VPs) + 13 x B-25 (26 VPs) =
40 VPs
AXIS TOTAL = 40 VPs
SCENARIO TOTAL: +45 --> AXIS victory [Perceived Victory Level:
ALLIED] Seeing the bombing results on the Primary targets I was
pretty sure of a US Victory.
The Zeros were quite efficient even with a Firepower of 1.
Recommendations: None. Fun scenario with lots of decisions to
make all along the game.
Lee, I will be unavailable for play test from today to January
9th.
Jean
#Post#: 7337--------------------------------------------------
Re: S21 Gunships!
By: Jean Foisy Date: January 8, 2021, 10:03 am
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Lee,
Scenario: S21 Gunships! - Test 02
Version: v2.0
Playtester: Jean Foisy [Solo]
Plans:
- The US plan was to escort and protect the Gunships.
- The Gunships will use Flak Suppression before bombing.
- The Japanese plan was to use all the interceptors to destroy
the Left US Force.
- The Flak will use Barrage.
Report:
- Game lasted 12 turns
- There was no vector height error for the duration
- Axis 2 x Veteran and 2 x Experten counters were assigned to
201 Kokutai and the last 2 Veterans were assigned to the
remaining Wing Leaders
- Allied Veteran were assigned the Gunships, 2 per attacking
force.
- 2 Allied Experten were given to the Right Escort and the last
one to the Left Escort.
- Bad placement of the 204th Kokutai's vector hampered the
concentration of Interceptors on the Left edge.
- While the Left was under attack the Right escorts were of no
use.
- Bombing results were disappointing with low rolls
- Flak Barrages were also plagued with low rolls and quite
ineffective.
Victory:
ALLIED VPs:
Axis A/C shot down: 16 x A6M5a: 16 VPs
ALLIED bombing Results:
- 16 Hits on O-0 Airfield (Crippling Damage): 20 VPs
- 13 Hits on L-0 Airfield (Crippling Damage): 20 VPs
- 3 Hits on K-0 Hvy Flak (Minor Damage): 1.5 VPs
- 3 Hits on P-0 Hvy Flak (Heavy Damage): 1.5 VPs
ALLIED TOTAL = 59 VPs
AXIS VPs:
Allied A/C shot down: 3 x P-38 (4.5 VPs) + 7 x B-25 (14 VPs) =
18.5 VPs
AXIS TOTAL = 18.5 VPs
SCENARIO TOTAL: +40.5 --> AXIS victory [Perceived Victory Level:
ALLIED]
Recommendations: None.
The Left Edge escorting P-38 managed to contain and shoot down
the majority of Zeros.
Part of the Right Edge Escorts, seeing the Interceptors
placement, should have been switched to Sweep on Turn 1, then
sent to Flak suppression.
In Test 01 the Suppressing P-38 got some VPs on the targets. If
those VPs were added to the current results, a Draw could have
been possible.
Lee if you're OK with this I'd like to run another test on this
one.
Best.
Jean
#Post#: 7338--------------------------------------------------
Re: S21 Gunships!
By: Forrest Speck Date: January 8, 2021, 2:54 pm
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S 21
v 2.0
solo
American vets in lead gunship each wave and lead escort in each
wave. Next time all vets will go in the gunships.
Japanese vets split between 204 and 254 Kokutai.
FLAK- effective, shot down 4 x B-25 and 1 x P-38 and for good
measure 2 x Zero.
BOMBING- 4 hits on FLAK for 3 VP
7 hits on left airfield for 10 VP
6 hits on right airfield for 10 VP
3 hits on FLAK for 2 VP
25 VP
LOSSES- 12 x B-24 for 24 VP
8 x P-38 for 12 VP
36 VP
18 x Zero
18 VP
VICTORY- 43-36 for +7 for massive Japanese victory, felt like
massive Japanese victory. Bombing was sub par and losses were
high. Poor American planning helped contribute to this result.
Will run again, felt like a lot went the Japanese way with poor
American play.
#Post#: 7346--------------------------------------------------
Re: S21 Gunships!
By: pilotofficerprune Date: January 10, 2021, 7:44 am
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Okay, so let's tot up the numbers and see where we are on VP
calibration:
US Bombing: 43 + 68 + 43 + 25 = 44.7 VPs
Japanese losses: 2 + 18 + 16 + 18 = 13.5 VPs
US losses: 28.5 + 40.5 + 18.5 + 36 = 30.9 VPs
This gives us a mean output of +27.5 VPs in a scenario that
swings heavily on the bombing.
Score outputs are:
Elias 1 = +16.5
Jean 1 = +44.5
Jean 2 = +40.5
Forrest 1 = +7
Because of the bomb swing and the importance of the US losses, I
am tempted to broaden the draw window and drop it. My suggestion
is to make the draw window +22 to +32.5, an 11.5 VP spread, just
greater than the bonus from shifting an airfield from heavy to
crippled damage. That would map to clear wins and losses in all
the plays so far.
I think at least two more plays are needed, possibly three,
before we have a stable average to work from.
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