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#Post#: 6848--------------------------------------------------
Re: S12 Return of the Guards
By: Okmed Date: November 3, 2020, 9:31 am
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1.4 aye-aye
#Post#: 6849--------------------------------------------------
Re: S12 Return of the Guards
By: Okmed Date: November 3, 2020, 9:34 am
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Yes, I saw the recommendation about jettisoning bombs, but I had
already started that scenario before the new PDF dropped. I have
it downloaded now. Mark the previous playtest with an asterisk,
I guess.
#Post#: 6860--------------------------------------------------
Re: S12 Return of the Guards
By: Okmed Date: November 5, 2020, 9:56 am
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Scenario: S12 The Return of the Guards
Version: v1.4
Player(s): Dave Demko (solo)
Narrative: Bf 109s Veteran/Experte. One Fw 190F Veteran. IAR.81C
Experte. Low P-39 Veteran/Expert/Wing Leader. High P-39
Veteran/Experte. The Soviet plan was to engage the
fighter-bombers first and at least force them to jettison loads,
leaving one Veteran squadron high to intercept the Stukas. Both
Fw 190F squadrons had to jettison early, while one managed to
strafe for 1 hit, which proved significant in the end. The
Romanian squadron protected the Stukas well with a late reaction
leading to a dogfight. Flak barrage inflicted only a single -1
bombing modifier. Air-to-air results were balanced and not
particularly bloody.
Results:
Axis bombing = 8 VP
Axis kills = 3 VP
Soviet kill = 7 VP
net 4 yields Draw, which seems appropriate, as this seemed like
a standoff: The fighter-bombers were largely stuffed, while the
Stukas achieved merely OK results.
Recommendations: The strafing made the difference between Minor
and Heavy damage on one Tank, a 2 VP difference. Without that
hit, the Axis would have lost the scenario on points. The
contest did seem close and balanced. I would call the outcome
either a draw or a close Soviet victory based on the good
performance against the fighter-bombers. With special rule 3,
the optimal Soviet plan definitely includes engaging the Fw
190Fs. To make this a bit less of a no-brainer or to make it a
bit more difficult to force those squadrons to jettison bombs,
we could say that the jabos are forced to jettison if broken (or
if disrupted). It seemed easy to force air-to-air engagements by
splitting and outnumbering the single-flight low escort.
#Post#: 6861--------------------------------------------------
Re: S12 Return of the Guards
By: Elias Nordling Date: November 5, 2020, 10:19 am
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The chances of the FBs being disrupted or broken before bombing
are minimal. You only get one turn of combat before they bomb if
they use glide bombing profile.
Also, I see ganging up against the stukas as a very attactive
alternative. They have the potential of doing more bombing
damage, you have more time to ravage them, and there is a swarm
of high-quality Luftwaffe fighters on the deck that you don't
have to worry about. Try it.
#Post#: 6875--------------------------------------------------
Re: S12 Return of the Guards
By: Scott Spencer Date: November 7, 2020, 9:39 am
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Scenario: S12 Return of the Guards.
Version: v1.4.
Playtester: Scott Spencer(solo).
Report: Put Vets and Experten with The 109 and IAR.81c
Squadrons. The Russians opted to engage the Stukas rather than
tangle with the 190s in the flak zone. Flak was very effective,
downing two Stukas and a 190, and Disrupting a 190 and breaking
an already disrupted Stuka. Seven hits were scored on lead tank
unit and five hits on the trailing one. 190s bombed at 0
altitude and then strafed.
Victory: German - four P-39s and 6VP(three each) for tank losses
= 10VP. Russian - One 109, four IAR.81c, four Stuka, and two
190s = 11VP. 10VP - 11VP = -1VP Soviet Victory. Felt like
minor Soviet Victory.
Recommendations: None. Close fight; the Russians do have
options, though the Stukas are much more appetizing.
#Post#: 6877--------------------------------------------------
Re: S12 Return of the Guards
By: pilotofficerprune Date: November 8, 2020, 5:12 am
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So let's look at the VPs for the last three plays:
Axis bombing - 15 + 8 + 6 = mean 9.7
Soviet losses - 11 + 3 + 4 = mean 6.0
Axis losses - 12 + 7 + 11 = mean 10.0
So far the scenario hinges on relative losses, with the mean
being +5.7. We are good for the moment, but I'd like to see the
scores from more plays.
#Post#: 6897--------------------------------------------------
Re: S12 Return of the Guards
By: Okmed Date: November 12, 2020, 10:52 am
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[quote author=Elias Nordling link=topic=181.msg6861#msg6861
date=1604593186]
The chances of the FBs being disrupted or broken before bombing
are minimal. You only get one turn of combat before they bomb if
they use glide bombing profile.
[/quote]
True, and yes the Stukas are tempting. Best to have a couple
turns to deal with them before they tip into their bombing runs.
But consider this about the Jabos: According to special rule 3,
all the Soviets have to do to mess up their attack is engage
them in combat. At that point they have to jettison bombs and
can, at best, make one strafing run. With wing orders, it's
possible to split one squadron of P-39s, get one flight onto
each of the Fw 190F squadrons, and force them to jettison, while
the other two P-39 squadrons chew up the Stukas. That kind of
optimal resource utilization requires some good dice, but it's a
plausible gambit. I think I'll try that next.
(References are to v1.4 of the scenario in
Sup_scenarios_08Nov20.pdf.)
#Post#: 6898--------------------------------------------------
Re: S12 Return of the Guards
By: Elias Nordling Date: November 12, 2020, 1:27 pm
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Aa the Germans, I would counter this by using the swarm of now
available high quality fighters to chew up those two Soviet
flights and get a positive loss ratio, but it is worth trying.
#Post#: 6900--------------------------------------------------
Re: S12 Return of the Guards
By: Jean Foisy Date: November 12, 2020, 4:19 pm
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Scenario: S12 The Return of the Guards - Test 01
Version: v1.2
Playtesters: Jean Foisy [Solo]
Plans:
- Soviet plan was to engage FW190F bombers then the Stukas
- German plan was to have the FW bombers use Steep bombing and
the fighters engaging the Soviets early to protect the Stukas.
Report:
- Game lasted 10 turns
- There were no height errors at set-up
- Axis Veteran and Experten counters assigned to the IAR.81C and
Fw190A-4 escorts
- Soviet Veteran and Experten counters were assigned the Wing
Leader's Squadron and another 16 GIAP Squadron.
- The Axis fighters engaged early the Soviet as planned (Soviet
Wing Leader was stuck in a Dogfight from Turn 03)
- The Stukas were not engaged by Soviets Squadrons.
- The Stukas got 18 hits while the 190Fs got 23 hits. Quite
unimpressive results for the Stukas.
Victory:
Soviet enemies shot down: (2 x IAR81, 6 x 190F, 3 x 109G, 3 x
190A)= 14 VPs
SOVIET TOTAL = 14 VPs
Axis enemies shot down: (6 X P-39Q): 6 VPs
Axis bombing Results:
Tanks in R0 = 30 Hits(Fatal Damage): 9 VPs
Tanks in S0 = 5 Hits(Heavy Damage): 3 VPs
Flak in S0 = 7 Hits(Heavy Damage): 2 VPs
AXIS TOTAL = 20 VPs
SCENARIO TOTAL: +6 VP --> Draw [Perceived Victory Level: Draw
with the poor bombing results.]
Recommendations: None
I used version 1.2 having not realized the changes to SSR 3.
Having used it the climbing 190Fs, who were intercepted on Turn
02, would have no chances to bomb.
The end result would have been a lot different.
I'll start test 02 with v1.4 this evening.
Best.
Jean
#Post#: 6903--------------------------------------------------
Re: S12 Return of the Guards
By: Okmed Date: November 12, 2020, 10:03 pm
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[quote author=Elias Nordling link=topic=181.msg6898#msg6898
date=1605209264]
Aa the Germans, I would counter this by using the swarm of now
available high quality fighters to chew up those two Soviet
flights and get a positive loss ratio, but it is worth trying.
[/quote]
That's the problem, isn't it: that Bf 109 squadron ready to
swing high or low. In both my previous games those guys were
killers.
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