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#Post#: 5768--------------------------------------------------
Weapons Loads and Other Markers
By: pilotofficerprune Date: June 4, 2020, 3:12 am
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Can you guys please take a look at this thread on BGG?
HTML https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/2438877/special-weaponsbomb-loads-etc
This EDG guy has been a real enthusiast for the game but it's
clear he stumbles on the rules in places. In this thread he's
been getting himself tied in knots on issues of weapon loads and
various other abilities while playing Schlachtflieger. I think
this is an opportunity to clarify the rules on weapon loads,
pods, rockets, etc. but I want to get to the heart of what's
causing him confusion.
I'm open to suggestions of change to the rules on this.
#Post#: 5781--------------------------------------------------
Re: Weapons Loads and Other Markers
By: Al Cannamore Date: June 4, 2020, 10:27 am
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I’ve been following that thread Lee. I too confess that I had to
wrap my head around load out and free movement for our Disaster
at Clark Field Scenario. Elias mentioned my Sweeps would gain
free movement at one point. I didn’t realize that. Since he’s
way more experienced with the game than I, I did a rule book
dive to solidify my understanding. If it helps, here’s the
thought process I went through to figure stuff out...
9.2.7 which discusses Free Movement doesn't give any relief to
my Zero's from their Sweep mission movement profile.
My Zero's are not fighter bombers as they're not loaded with
bombs (15.2.4).
During this rulebook dive, I learned that 15.3.7 says that
strafing squadrons must have a strafing or sweep mission.
Therefore, 15.2.1.1 allows my Zero's to load up bombs at
scenario start. Maybe I should have done this but I didn't so
they're not fighter bombers.
As they're not Fighter-Bombers, they don't gain the 3MP
allowance that's granted Fighter-Bombers when within 4 columns
of their target. And it's interesting to note that the fighter
bomber rule (15.2.4) mentions nothing about gaining free
movement.
My Zero's can however declare a strafing attack on any surface
target (15.3.7).
This allows them to fly a strafing profile when within 4 columns
of a target. The strafing profile allows dives but not climbs
(15.3.7).
You can abandon a strafing profile at any time (15.3).
I used these last two rules to make a "gamey" move in the
logfile. Not saying it shouldn't be allowed but am making sure
it is allowed.
Free movement is gained in a strafing profile only after
completion of a strafing attack, and then must remain within 4
columns of the target (15.3.7).
Whew, that's a lot of diving for rules tidbits scattered all
over :-)
#Post#: 5785--------------------------------------------------
Re: Weapons Loads and Other Markers
By: pilotofficerprune Date: June 4, 2020, 11:04 am
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[quote]During this rulebook dive, I learned that 15.3.7 says
that strafing squadrons must have a strafing or sweep mission.
Therefore, 15.2.1.1 allows my Zero's to load up bombs at
scenario start. Maybe I should have done this but I didn't so
they're not fighter bombers.[/quote]
No. Squadrons with Strafing or Sweep missions can strafe. But
that doesn’t mean squadrons with Sweep missions can load with
bombs. Only squadrons with Strafing missions can do that.
As for the gamey move, I’m not sure I can see a way past that. I
note that gamers like Elias are now using strafing to have Sweep
squadrons do all sorts of exotic manoeuvring near the target
with no intention of actually strafing. Not sure what to do
about that.
#Post#: 5786--------------------------------------------------
Re: Weapons Loads and Other Markers
By: Elias Nordling Date: June 4, 2020, 11:14 am
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We sure are :-). You could restrict this a bit by using the
"shortest route" rule towards the target for strafing.
#Post#: 5796--------------------------------------------------
Re: Weapons Loads and Other Markers
By: pilotofficerprune Date: June 5, 2020, 2:30 am
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I really don't want to do that because it would restrict
movement for turning around and making a second pass.
#Post#: 5799--------------------------------------------------
Re: Weapons Loads and Other Markers
By: pilotofficerprune Date: June 5, 2020, 4:15 am
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I've been doing some noodling with the rules text for weapon
loads, AARs and Gun Pods trying to emphasise that player choice
applies to these features. It's clear people are getting a bit
hung up on that and 'must I use these features'? I suspect EDG
simply hasn't read the rules closely enough, but anything we can
do to make this clearer is good.
I'll have to do a new rules release at some stage and ask
Vincent and Rick to proof the text changes (I've been noting
these in the errata sheet, so I'm tracking them.)
#Post#: 5805--------------------------------------------------
Re: Weapons Loads and Other Markers
By: ScottKey Date: June 5, 2020, 9:55 am
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I went to the thread and I think you (and others) have explained
the rules enough so that they should be clear. He just hasn’t
read them close enough. Everything is spelled out clearly in the
rules but the reader needs to leave his expectations behind.
#Post#: 5806--------------------------------------------------
Re: Weapons Loads and Other Markers
By: pilotofficerprune Date: June 5, 2020, 10:06 am
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Though to be fair I did go back to the rules and looking at them
with fresh eyes I feel they could be tweaked to communicate them
more clearly. The final para of 15.1 for example, is reasonably
clear, but could be simplified further and have the emphasis
rightly placed on the rule being permissive rather than
restrictive. I have an alternative wording that I'll get you
guys to look at soon.
#Post#: 5817--------------------------------------------------
Re: Weapons Loads and Other Markers
By: Al Cannamore Date: June 6, 2020, 2:03 am
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[quote author=Lee Brimmicombe-Wood
link=topic=168.msg5785#msg5785 date=1591286680]
[quote]During this rulebook dive, I learned that 15.3.7 says
that strafing squadrons must have a strafing or sweep mission.
Therefore, 15.2.1.1 allows my Zero's to load up bombs at
scenario start. Maybe I should have done this but I didn't so
they're not fighter bombers.[/quote]
No. Squadrons with Strafing or Sweep missions can strafe. But
that doesn’t mean squadrons with Sweep missions can load with
bombs. Only squadrons with Strafing missions can do that.
As for the gamey move, I’m not sure I can see a way past that. I
note that gamers like Elias are now using strafing to have Sweep
squadrons do all sorts of exotic manoeuvring near the target
with no intention of actually strafing. Not sure what to do
about that.
[/quote]
I’ve been trying to find the rule that says only squadrons with
strafing missions can load with bombs. I’m sure it exists. Can
someone please enlighten me?
To eliminate abuse of the strafing rule by Sweeps, you can
delete “or Sweep” in the first paragraph of 15.3.7. Needs to be
done in my opinion. This loophole opens up all sorts of gaminess
that wasn’t intended as far I can tell.
#Post#: 5819--------------------------------------------------
Re: Weapons Loads and Other Markers
By: Elias Nordling Date: June 6, 2020, 2:54 am
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Sweep is a fighter mission, to bomb, you need a bombing mission.
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