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#Post#: 4845--------------------------------------------------
Re: L22 Black Monday Over Ore Mountains
By: ScottKey Date: March 20, 2020, 5:59 pm
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Scenario:L22 Black Day Over the Ore Mtns, March 20, 2020- PLAY
#1
Version: 0.2
Playtesters: Scott Key, solitaire
Report:
- Game lasted 8 turns
- There was one height error. the Sturmbocks vector was moved
down 2 squares.
- The Gustavs had only one experte, the rest were assigned to
the Stürmbocks.
- The P-51 wing was given 2 Veteran counters and one experte.
The other starting P-51 sqn was veteran.
- One Gustav experte sqn was given a gun pod. No Gustavs were
assigned AtAR.
- The P-51 wing tallied the Stürmbock wing in Turn 1 and split
into 4 flights.
- Both German wings moved their vectors in turn 1
- The P-51s were tallied by the III Gruppe wing who were able to
bounce the P-51s of 55 FG (I stupidly moved these low to try
and prevent the Gustavs from tallying). This held back the
Mustangs from catching up to II Gruppe until well into the game.
- The Stürmbocks of II Gruppe jumped on the B-17s as soon as
they appeared and continued to attack until the bombers exited.
- The American units should have focused on getting to the
Bomber entry point and switching back to escort.
Axis: x7 fighters downed= -7 vp; x8 bombers downed= -24 vp: -31
vp
Allies: x10 fighters downed= +10 vp; 3 disrupted B-17 sqns
exited +9 vp= +19 vp
Victory: Luftwaffe
Total: -12 vp
Recommendations:
- the Victory math should be reversed with the American total
being subtracted from the German total.
- This is a really nice scenario that calls for a deep
understanding of all the Late War rules and some interesting
decision making. Think it was the right idea to move it into the
main scenario booklet.
- Again, other than the above recommendation, I think it’s
pretty balanced. I wouldn’t mind taking another crack at it to
double check.
-
- A realistic best case scenario for the USAAF would seem like
30-34 vp (18 vp for bombers exited plus around 15 fighters
downed)
- Best case scenario for Germans is to reduce the American vp
for exiting by breaking all the B-17 squadrons ( to +3 vp total)
plus around 9 bombers downed (-27 vp) and around 8 P-51s downed
(-8 vp) for a total of around -32. This seems extremely
unlikely, less likely than the best case for the USAAF.
#Post#: 4848--------------------------------------------------
Re: L22 Black Monday Over Ore Mountains
By: pilotofficerprune Date: March 21, 2020, 1:58 am
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That's great! I'll look at the victory calculation and correct
the levels, but could you give me another play just to check the
VP output?
#Post#: 4849--------------------------------------------------
Re: L22 Black Monday Over Ore Mountains
By: pilotofficerprune Date: March 21, 2020, 3:18 am
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The scenario hasn’t changed a lot but the last two runs we have
seen the following VP outputs:
US bomber loss VPs: 21 + 24 = mean 22.5
US fighter loss VPs: 4 + 7 = mean 5.5
US bombers disrupted: 1 + 3
US bombers broken: 1 + 0
Adjusted exit VPs: -9 + -9 = mean -9
Exit VPs = mean 9
German fighter loss VPs: 21 + 10 = mean 15.5
The major variance between the two plays is the number of German
fighter losses. If we stick with three bomber squadrons and go
with Scott’s recommendation for a reverse VP calculation,
subtracting American from German values, we get the following:
German mean VPs = 28
US mean VPs = 24.5
Mean VPs: 28 - 24.5 = 3.5
This suggests a draw window of +1 to +7, or the equivalent of
two bombers and a disrupted squadron, which given the fat
numbers we are playing with seems like a reasonable outcome.
#Post#: 4850--------------------------------------------------
Re: L22 Black Monday Over Ore Mountains
By: pilotofficerprune Date: March 21, 2020, 3:21 am
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Another change I will make is to alert all P-51s, which makes
sense in conjunction with the special rule on permitting
squadrons to form up on the bombers.
#Post#: 4929--------------------------------------------------
Re: L22 Black Monday Over Ore Mountains
By: ScottKey Date: March 26, 2020, 1:45 pm
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Scenario:L22 Black Day Over the Ore Mtns, March 26, 2020- PLAY
#2
Version: 0.3
Playtesters: Scott Key, solitaire
Report:
- Game lasted 7 turns
- There were no height errors.
- The Gustavs had only one experte, the rest were assigned to
the Stürmbocks.
- The P-51 wing was given 1 Veteran counters and one experte.
- Two B-17 sqns were veteran.
- Three Gustav green Sqns were given AtAR.
- The P-51 wing tallied the Stürmbock wing in Turn 1 and split
into 4 flights.
- Both German wings moved their vectors in turn 1
- The P-51 wing split into 4 flights with targets assigned in
the Fw-190 wing. Two flights (including the experten) began to
attack the Fw-190s and the other two flights closed from above.
The upper flights reverted to Escort as the B-17s arrived.
- The Gustav wing was careful to avoid contact with the P-51s
and tallied and attacked the B-17s as they arrived BUT the
Americans rolled good reaction rolls and 2 Gustav squadrons (and
1 Stürmbock sqn) were prevented from attacking.
- One ATAR equiped sqn downed two B-17s in the first go ,
however the veteran Flying Fortresses did not lose cohesion.
Another Bomber sqn under attack by both Gustavs and Stürmbocks
did lose cohesion despite taking no losses.
- The P-51s were always successful at starting dogfights and the
few Luftwaffe sqns that did continue to attack the bombers were
peeled off one by one and broken, each in their turn.
- Three P-51 sqns broke, always after or at the same time as
breaking their opponent.
Axis: x4 fighters downed= +4 vp; x2 bombers downed= +6 vp: +10
vp
Allies: x14 fighters downed=-10 vp; 2 Good Order & 1 disrupted
B-17 sqns exited -15 vp= -29 vp
Victory: USAAF felt like USAAF Victory
Total: -19 vp
Recommendations:
- Really great scenario. Many ways to play this and, as I said
before, you really need to know all the rules to play this well.
I think the late war crowd will be happy.
- I think this one is well balanced. If the Gustavs run
interference for the Stürmbocks the Germans have an ok chance to
down a significant number of bombers and shake their cohesion
apart. Right now it seems like the P-51s want to avoid taking
the bait of any interaction with the 109s and make their
rendezvous with the bombers. Their chances of a successful
reaction is pretty good.
- I had one question: if two squadrons tally a target and the
lead squadron will be making a stand-off attack I assume both
still take -1 ammo depletion. Also does the second (non
stand-off capable) squadron contribute the +1 for being an
additional squadron.
#Post#: 4930--------------------------------------------------
Re: L22 Black Monday Over Ore Mountains
By: ScottKey Date: March 26, 2020, 1:46 pm
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I can move on of you’d like.
#Post#: 4931--------------------------------------------------
Re: L22 Black Monday Over Ore Mountains
By: ScottKey Date: March 26, 2020, 1:52 pm
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Actually one more recommendation: make the Clear Skies condition
apply to the scenario.
#Post#: 4932--------------------------------------------------
Re: L22 Black Monday Over Ore Mountains
By: pilotofficerprune Date: March 26, 2020, 4:16 pm
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[quote]if two squadrons tally a target and the lead squadron
will be making a stand-off attack I assume both still take -1
ammo depletion. Also does the second (non stand-off capable)
squadron contribute the +1 for being an additional
squadron.[/quote]
Rule 13.5.2.1:
Standoff attacks are only made if all attackers have a Heavy Gun
ability/are firing AARs.
In other words, you cannot mix a standoff and non-standoff
squadron in a standoff attack. The attack would have to be a
non-standoff one.
#Post#: 4933--------------------------------------------------
Re: L22 Black Monday Over Ore Mountains
By: pilotofficerprune Date: March 26, 2020, 4:18 pm
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Is the clear skies really necessary? Do we at any point have a
need for it?
Can you move on to L18 Fantastic Fives please?
#Post#: 4934--------------------------------------------------
Re: L22 Black Monday Over Ore Mountains
By: ScottKey Date: March 26, 2020, 4:20 pm
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It’s not really necessary but might make Tallies happen just a
tad earlier.
I’ll move on....
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