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#Post#: 5692--------------------------------------------------
Re: Kursk Campaign
By: pilotofficerprune Date: May 30, 2020, 2:10 am
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Oops. I believe that should be a Hvy Flak D unit.
#Post#: 5694--------------------------------------------------
Re: Kursk Campaign
By: Elias Nordling Date: May 30, 2020, 4:08 am
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Campaign turn 2:
The Germans picked OOB 2 and the Soviets picked 5. The Germans
had really hot dice in the air and were able to mostly contain
the hordes of Soviet fighters despite the odds. The Soviets
still got 3 attacks on bombers disrupting a suadron. Things
looked good for the Germans but a hot Soviet Flak barrage spoied
the fun. They were just able to pull off a win, but lost a
campaign point for losses due to the flak and were unable to
gain minor damage on the second target.
German losses 8
Soviet losses 11
Bombing damage heavy on one target, nothing on the other.
German victory, Both players got CVP:s for losses. Total one CVP
in the German Favor.
Comment: I love this campaign format. the scenarios play really
fast and you get a good narrative. This scenario has a good
setup where the Germans suffers more flak if they try both
targets, and all the goals felt achievable but not given.
#Post#: 5695--------------------------------------------------
Re: Kursk Campaign
By: Elias Nordling Date: May 30, 2020, 7:00 am
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German OOB 3 is really the wrong tool for anything but scenario
5, but you might end up having to use it in another scenario
anyway. Is that intentional?
#Post#: 5697--------------------------------------------------
Re: Kursk Campaign
By: pilotofficerprune Date: May 30, 2020, 7:37 am
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Yes, I think there's only a couple of scenarios where the
tankbusting OOB is optimised. DOK06 and DOK09.
Not sure what happens if the German is forced to use it in an
inappropriate scenario.
#Post#: 5698--------------------------------------------------
Re: Kursk Campaign
By: pilotofficerprune Date: May 30, 2020, 7:48 am
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Okay, there is a potential fix for this. If I swap scenarios
DOK07 and DOK09 in the scenario tree then there is no way the
German player can have a three-raid run and miss a tankbusting
scenario.
This requires another change to the playaid, of course, but it's
totally worth it.
#Post#: 5701--------------------------------------------------
Re: Kursk Campaign
By: Gordon Christie Date: May 30, 2020, 10:36 am
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Andrew (VVS) & I have now run through this for the fourth time:
DOK 01 LW OB 4 VVS OB 3 (+1 CVP)
LW 1 loss VVS 6 fighters 1 bomber
AF 9 hits---> SUCCESS (+1 CVP)
No bonus CVP
Nett +2
I played the Germans poorly, trying to be altogether too clever
& strip the sports away before (I fondly hoped...) monstering
the bombers. End result was that the bombers attacked largely
unimpeded, rolled well & achieved the objective despite a weak
OB. Andrew stuck to the mission & was duly rewarded:-))
On to DAK 02
Flak No light flak D exists; more logically Lt Flak A in P0 Hvy
flak D in Q0- I think Elias has also noted this.
LW OB2 VVS OB4 (only 3 109 flights used though the then current
OB said 4 but we suspected change was impending)
LW 2 fighters 1 bomber 8 hits on 1 troop SUCCESS -1 CVP
VVS 6 fighters
NETT +1
This was a generally low scoring engagement all round. Cohesion
generally poor.
On to DOK 04 Panzerkorps Assault
LW OB1 (+1 CVP) vs VVS OB 5
LW 5 fighters & 8 bombers (+1 CVP)
VVS 14 fighters (-1 CVP)
Bombing (poor DR 5,3,9) 1hit---> FAIL ( +1 CVP)
Shift +2 Very good Soviet dice
NETT +3 CVP
Something of a wild outlier in terms of dice rolling. The LW had
almost comically awful die rolls, particularly for the
Stukas-head on attack by yak 9s netted 2 aircraft & the
following turn a climbing attack on a veteran Stuka squadron got
3. stuka cohesion rolls were poor, as was bombing but even
average die rolls might have squeaked success. Good match up
between the best OBs on both sides.
Although the score by this stage was +3 to the Soviets my
feeling as the LW was that with slightly better luck (& better
play!) things could easily have been heading the other way.
DOK 08 Operation Kutuzov VVS
LW OB 6 VVS OB2
LW 3 fighters VVS 9 fighters 5 bombers
Artillery 3 hit (decent bombing dice 9,11,7) though Boston
cohesion *slightly* below average?
FAIL;-1 CVP
NETT +2 CVP at end
Again as the Germans I felt I had a chance to drag it back into
draw territory pretty much thoughout.
Overall the campaign works well. Setups feel right & we've
probably exercised a lot of the OB combinations by now. Nothing
feel jarring. The action starts early but the defender on
occasion gets some chance to work the clouds & the sun for
favourable position. The scenarios feel reasonably fresh & not
at all repetitive.
Balance feel about right. No scenario felt like a given for
either side, nor did I feel that I was in a hopeless position in
any scenario.
My only comment would be that LW OB5 might reasonably be a 0 CVP
option. Compared to OB6 you are trading an extra flight of 109s
for a second experte. Granted there need to be slightly
cellophane boundaries somewhere but overall this feels a bit
harsh.
Interestingly, and related to Elias' point above the tank buster
OBs weren't used this time round. Without close analysis my
sense is that there is enough flexibility in the OBs that
choosing the right tools for the job is possible though the
IL-2s in particular have utility against other targets though as
the LW player if the opposition doesn't have tanks it pays to
leave the tank busters at home.
Beyond the CVP tweak for LW OB5 I think we're happy with this at
alpha.
We might have ago at Operation Arcturus tomorrow unless there
is something else you're particularly keen for us to try.
Cheers
Gordon
#Post#: 5702--------------------------------------------------
Re: Kursk Campaign
By: pilotofficerprune Date: May 30, 2020, 10:45 am
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That's great, Gordon. I'll chew on the data tomorrow and see if
any further tweaks are required.
I have a small tweak tomorrow (noted above) to fix the
tankbuster problem. But I think we're getting to the point where
we can soon open the campaign to everyone. Just want to get the
scenarios laid to rest.
If you guys can get us another playing of Operation Arcturus
soon, then that would be grand.
#Post#: 5703--------------------------------------------------
Re: Kursk Campaign
By: Elias Nordling Date: May 30, 2020, 1:15 pm
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Campaign scenario 3:
The third one was scenario 4. The Germans had the choice of
sacrificing another campaign point they couldn't afford, or
picking tank busters for chasing artillery. They choose the
former and picked OOB 1 after your re-jigging. The Soviets
picked OOB 6.
The die rolling was out of this world, with notable examples
being a green La5 climbing into a Stuka protected by
Messerschmitts, picking a turning combat and at -3 scoring 2
kills for one loss and breaking the Messerschmitt without
breaking himself. the Other green La5 passed 4 cohesion rolls,
one with 3 losses and out of ammo by rolling 12. They got no
less than 12 attacks on the bombers.
Somehow, the Soviets were unable to turn this string of luck
into a win, or even enough German losses for the loss bonus.
Lethargic Flak allowed the Stukas to score, with one suadron
that simply didn't bother to bomb to not bother the flak. The
icing on the cake for the germans was that they only just
managed to reach the Soviet loss limit.
10 Soviet losses, Germans 6.
+1 OOB, -1 German Win, -1 Soviet losses, -1 extra bombing.
Total: -2
Current campaign score: 0
Comment: Exciting :-) And obviously this campaign can still go
either way as it's tank busting time for the last scenario.
#Post#: 5707--------------------------------------------------
Re: Kursk Campaign
By: pilotofficerprune Date: May 31, 2020, 1:34 am
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So first, a commandment for campaign testing: please always
indicate the scenario being played.
I’ve just tracked the paths of the last four scenario plays
(including Elias’s incomplete play).
[attachimg=1]
As you can see in the image the trend is towards the Germans
failing the first mission. This is not a big concern yet, as we
don’t have much data, but failure reasons include:
Gordon/Andrew 3 - Germans outnumbered vs. slippery Bostons
Elias 1 - Germans outnumbered by escorts; Germans hard to get
bonus VP
Gordon/Andrew 4 - Poor German play
Only in Gordon/Andrew 2 did we see a German success, with poor
Soviet bombing rolls and better than average Luftwaffe rolls.
The impression is that the first scenario leans Soviet and I’m
going to tweak this key scenario as follows:
* Add a special rule that at set-up the German replaces one
flight with a squadron of the same type.
This boost to strength fits with the narrative and may well tip
things the Germans' way.
#Post#: 5708--------------------------------------------------
Re: Kursk Campaign
By: Elias Nordling Date: May 31, 2020, 1:44 am
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My main concern is also scenario one. It seems fairly easy for
the Soviets to win. The soviets taking 16 losses also seemed way
out of reach for the Germans.
My second concern is once again the ground hugging rules. I
think they are still too powerful. How about they have the same
effect as evasion instead?
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